JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate > JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate
The Assassination was Sloppy and Amateurish
Dan O'meara:
--- Quote from: Jarrett Smith on July 07, 2025, 04:18:49 AM ---First of 4 shots was around z-160
--- End quote ---
'Head turns' are, by far, the most rubbish argument put forward for shots being fired.
It's a motorcade, there are people on either side of the limo looking to catch the attention of the occupants. It's safe to say that all through the entire motorcade the occupants are constantly turning their heads to each other or things happening outside the limo.
I find it amazing that people are still using this method to determine when a shot occurred.
It is a really weak argument.
The clips you posted are an excellent example of how mistaken this watery method is.
At this point in the Z-film both the Connallys and the Kennedys turn their heads to the right.
All of them.
It is well reported that this is in response to Mary Woodward and her friends calling out to catch the attention of the President and his wife. All four occupants turn and look in the direction of Woodward and co.
JFK then smiles and waves in their direction - a curious response if you are trying to argue that he is responding to the sound of a shot.
As is so often the case in "The First Shot" thread, arguments for a shot earlier than z222/z223 often end up being arguments in favour of this timing and this is the case here. Later in the day Woddward writes an article about what she witnessed:
"Four of us from Women’s News, Maggie Brown, Aurelia Alonzo, my roommate Ann Donaldson, and myself had decided to spend our lunch hour by going to see the President...The President was looking straight ahead and we were afraid we would not get to see his face. But we started clapping and cheering and both he and Mrs. Kennedy turned, and smiled and waved, directly at us, it seemed. Jackie was wearing a beautiful pink suit with beret to match. Two of us, who had seen the President last during the final weeks of the 1960 campaign, remarked almost simultaneously how relaxed and robust he looked. As it turned out, we were almost certainly the last faces he noticed in the crowd. After acknowledging our cheers, he faced forward again and suddenly there was a horrible, ear-shattering noise coming from behind us and a little to the right."
In the clip you posted, JFK turns to his right to acknowledge Woodward and her colleagues. He smiles and waves at them and, according to Woodward, he then turns to face forward and it is at this time that the first shot occurs.
Ann Atterberry nee Donaldson (one of Woodward's colleagues stood with her)
(2-17-09 post by Honorfligh...@Aol.com, found on the alt.assassination.JFK newsgroup, in which he/she discusses an encounter with Donaldson circa 1988) (As to whether he/she had ever had personal contact with an eyewitness) "I have spoken with one, Ann Atterberry, about 21 years ago. Ann described for us in still mournful detail that approximately one second or so before she heard the first very loud shot, JFK then Jackie were both looking towards her and she was absolutely thrilled by that. JFK had also started waving towards her (which thrilled Ann even more) and then JFK made direct eye contact with Ann, THEN the first of 3 shots happened, and JFK immediately quickly reacted to being hit.
Quotes from Pat Speer's website.
Royell Storing:
You guys continue relying on the Current Zapruder Film. How about the Zapruder Film that Dan Rather watched and then reported Live to the nation the weekend after the assassination? Per Rather, that Zapruder Film showed Gov Connally being "HIT" in the chest when he was turned around toward JFK/TSBD. The Z Film was privately owned and under lock-n-key for 12 years. As evidence it is worthless.
Dan O'meara:
--- Quote from: Royell Storing on July 07, 2025, 03:55:57 PM --- You guys continue relying on the Current Zapruder Film. How about the Zapruder Film that Dan Rather watched and then reported Live to the nation the weekend after the assassination? Per Rather, that Zapruder Film showed Gov Connally being "HIT" in the chest when he was turned around toward JFK/TSBD. The Z Film was privately owned and under lock-n-key for 12 years. As evidence it is worthless.
--- End quote ---
Read the Zavada Report.
Dan O'meara:
--- Quote from: Tom Graves on July 03, 2025, 12:25:07 AM ---Now you're changing it to 1/4-open.
--- End quote ---
I'm not changing it to anything.
I'm pointing out that it is 1/4 open and not 1/3 open as you posted.
I was also wondering why you would make such an obvious error.
--- Quote ---Okay. Works for me.
--- End quote ---
How does that work for you?
I've presented evidence and arguments demonstrating that:
1] It would be virtually impossible to aim a rifle at a target in the middle of the road through the 1/4 open window from a standing position.
2] That any available evidence indicates the shots were to be taken from a sitting or crouched position.
How does having the window 1/4 open work for you?
--- Quote ---Scroll down to page 18 and see how steeply-downward-angled Oswald's first shot was.
https://d7922adf-f499-4a26-96d4-8ab2d521fa35.usrfiles.com/ugd/d7922a_e280e26982b44f2c97c6e6e27026e385.pdf
--- End quote ---
An utterly meaningless point.
Some pictures taken from a Secret Service re-enactment where the shooter was sitting down, not standing!
You have failed miserably to deal with a single point made in my post and the one piss-weak point you do make also argues against a standing shooter.
Brilliant stuff.
Have a look through "The First Shot" thread.
Royell Storing:
--- Quote from: Dan O'meara on July 07, 2025, 09:55:13 PM ---Read the Zavada Report.
--- End quote ---
Zavada Report was issued in the 90's. Dan Rather viewed the Z Film the very weekend of the JFK Assassination. Case Closed!
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