Users Currently Browsing This Topic:
0 Members

Author Topic: How exactly did the shooter get down from the sixth floor?  (Read 10917 times)

Online John Iacoletti

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11314
Re: How exactly did the shooter get down from the sixth floor?
« Reply #32 on: May 04, 2025, 12:01:38 AM »
Advertisement

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: How exactly did the shooter get down from the sixth floor?
« Reply #32 on: May 04, 2025, 12:01:38 AM »


Online Tom Graves

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1011
Re: How exactly did the shooter get down from the sixth floor?
« Reply #33 on: May 04, 2025, 12:23:13 AM »

Cognitive dissonance is a real itch, isn't it, John?

Rhymes with xxxxx.

Online John Mytton

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4893
Re: How exactly did the shooter get down from the sixth floor?
« Reply #34 on: May 04, 2025, 01:59:17 AM »


Hilarious, the pot calling the kettle black!!

JohnM

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: How exactly did the shooter get down from the sixth floor?
« Reply #34 on: May 04, 2025, 01:59:17 AM »


Offline Richard Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5769
Re: How exactly did the shooter get down from the sixth floor?
« Reply #35 on: May 04, 2025, 02:15:08 AM »
"Martin" from "Europe" still can't follow simple logic.  If the evidence places Oswald on the 6th floor at 12:30 when the shots were fired AS IT DOES and THEN on the 2nd floor a couple of minutes later AS IT DOES and the ONLY WAY for Oswald to have gotten from those two points is DOWN THE STAIRS that proves beyond any doubt whatsoever that Oswald went DOWN THE STAIRS.   The best evidence that a thing could happen is that we can prove it DID happen.  Martin is struggling with reality.   The odds of an event occurring - no matter how long - becomes moot if it can be shown that it did in fact occur.  Even if we accepted Martin's laughable false premise that it is unlikely that Oswald could have gotten down the stairs unnoticed because Martin somehow knows everyone's movements down to fractions of seconds based on their generalized description of events after it makes no difference to the conclusion.  It's like telling someone holding the winning lottery ticket in their hands that the odds against them winning are so great that they couldn't have done it.  And sticking to that even as they cash it in.

Martin wants to frame any discussion in the bizarre contrarian manner in which others have to account for every conceivable objection that he can dream up in his mind and eliminate to his subjective satisfaction any alternative as though a time machine existed.   LOL.  Any fact that Martin doesn't want to accept is subject to this same impossible standard of proof which is unreasonable to begin with while every alternative is entertained no matter how absurd with no proof whatsoever.  Repeat endlessly.  Dragging every thread down the same pointless rabbit hole.

Offline Martin Weidmann

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7948
Re: How exactly did the shooter get down from the sixth floor?
« Reply #36 on: May 04, 2025, 02:43:14 AM »
"Martin" from "Europe" still can't follow simple logic.  If the evidence places Oswald on the 6th floor at 12:30 when the shots were fired AS IT DOES and THEN on the 2nd floor a couple of minutes later AS IT DOES and the ONLY WAY for Oswald to have gotten from those two points is DOWN THE STAIRS that proves beyond any doubt whatsoever that Oswald went DOWN THE STAIRS.   The best evidence that a thing could happen is that we can prove it DID happen.  Martin is struggling with reality.   The odds of an event occurring - no matter how long - becomes moot if it can be shown that it did in fact occur.  Even if we accepted Martin's laughable false premise that it is unlikely that Oswald could have gotten down the stairs unnoticed because Martin somehow knows everyone's movements down to fractions of seconds based on their generalized description of events after it makes no difference to the conclusion.  It's like telling someone holding the winning lottery ticket in their hands that the odds against them winning are so great that they couldn't have done it.  And sticking to that even as they cash it in.

Martin wants to frame any discussion in the bizarre contrarian manner in which others have to account for every conceivable objection that he can dream up in his mind and eliminate to his subjective satisfaction any alternative as though a time machine existed.   LOL.  Any fact that Martin doesn't want to accept is subject to this same impossible standard of proof which is unreasonable to begin with while every alternative is entertained no matter how absurd with no proof whatsoever.  Repeat endlessly.  Dragging every thread down the same pointless rabbit hole.

If the evidence places Oswald on the 6th floor at 12:30 when the shots were fired AS IT DOES

Show me the actual evidence (not your assumptions) that Oswald was on the 6th floor at 12:30 and I will agree with you and shut up! Go on then...

and THEN on the 2nd floor a couple of minutes later AS IT DOES

Sure, it does... Baker and Truly saw him there, within 90 seconds after the shots

and the ONLY WAY for Oswald to have gotten from those two points is DOWN THE STAIRS that proves beyond any doubt whatsoever that Oswald went DOWN THE STAIRS. 

Only if and when you can prove that he was on the 6th floor to begin with? Can you?

The best evidence that a thing could happen is that we can prove it DID happen.

Well, prove it did happen!

The odds of an event occurring - no matter how long - becomes moot if it can be shown that it did in fact occur.

Agreed! No show it did in fact occur!

Even if we accepted Martin's laughable false premise that it is unlikely that Oswald could have gotten down the stairs unnoticed because Martin somehow knows everyone's movements down to fractions of seconds based on their generalized description of events after it makes no difference to the conclusion

That's not my premise! It's your strawman! A time trail has proven that he could have gotten down the stairs in the known time frame. It just hasn't proven that he could have gotten down the stairs unnoticed.

Martin wants to frame any discussion in the bizarre contrarian manner in which others have to account for every conceivable objection that he can dream up in his mind and eliminate to his subjective satisfaction any alternative as though a time machine existed.   LOL.

Nope, that's just plain silly. Show me the evidence that conclusively places Oswald on the 6th floor at 12:30 and I have nothing left to object to. So, it's up to you... show me the evidence!

Any fact that Martin doesn't want to accept is subject to this same impossible standard of proof which is unreasonable to begin

Is it unreasonable to just ask for conclusive evidence?

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: How exactly did the shooter get down from the sixth floor?
« Reply #36 on: May 04, 2025, 02:43:14 AM »


Online John Mytton

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4893
Re: How exactly did the shooter get down from the sixth floor?
« Reply #37 on: May 04, 2025, 05:49:32 AM »
"Martin" from "Europe" still can't follow simple logic.  If the evidence places Oswald on the 6th floor at 12:30 when the shots were fired AS IT DOES and THEN on the 2nd floor a couple of minutes later AS IT DOES and the ONLY WAY for Oswald to have gotten from those two points is DOWN THE STAIRS that proves beyond any doubt whatsoever that Oswald went DOWN THE STAIRS.   The best evidence that a thing could happen is that we can prove it DID happen.  Martin is struggling with reality.   The odds of an event occurring - no matter how long - becomes moot if it can be shown that it did in fact occur.  Even if we accepted Martin's laughable false premise that it is unlikely that Oswald could have gotten down the stairs unnoticed because Martin somehow knows everyone's movements down to fractions of seconds based on their generalized description of events after it makes no difference to the conclusion.  It's like telling someone holding the winning lottery ticket in their hands that the odds against them winning are so great that they couldn't have done it.  And sticking to that even as they cash it in.

Martin wants to frame any discussion in the bizarre contrarian manner in which others have to account for every conceivable objection that he can dream up in his mind and eliminate to his subjective satisfaction any alternative as though a time machine existed.   LOL.  Any fact that Martin doesn't want to accept is subject to this same impossible standard of proof which is unreasonable to begin with while every alternative is entertained no matter how absurd with no proof whatsoever.  Repeat endlessly.  Dragging every thread down the same pointless rabbit hole.

It's pretty funny that 60+ years later that the CT's still haven't come up with a viable alternative to the rock solid evidence of the official version.

Oswald was a loon who ffs defected to Russia at the height of the cold war and when he wasn't accepted by Russia, Oswald slit his wrists, who the heck, besides someone who's verifiably insane, does that?
Oswald also attempted to assassinate General Walker, further proving he was a murderous nutcase!

But getting back to this problem;

Oswald's rifle with his prints was discovered on the same floor as eyewitnesses saw a man with a rifle.

What happened to the slender man seen on the 6th floor with a rifle, how did HE escape? -crickets-

Oswald's relatively fresh prints were discovered in the sniper's nest and most importantly Oswald's prints which were oriented down Elm street were left on the perfectly sized rifle rest box which was moved half way across the 6th floor.





Adams story is full of holes, she said she saw Lovelady and Shelley on the first floor, impossible if she left "immediately".

Styles later recalled that she was pretty sure that they went to the lift first and looking at the plan of the 4th floor, that makes perfect sense, because why go all the way to the rear of the building when the far closer elevator will take you down to the front of the building. And besides walking down multiple floors of stairs while wearing 3 inch heels wouldn't IMO be the first choice.


Oswald's alibi where he says he had lunch with Junior never happened.

Mr. BALL. And you asked him again, didn't you, what he was doing at the time the President was shot?
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. What did he say?
Mr. FRITZ. Well, he told me about the same story about this lunch.
Mr. BALL. He mentioned who he was having lunch with, did he not?
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir; he told me he was having lunch when the President was shot.
Mr. BALL. With whom?
Mr. FRITZ. With someone called Junior, someone he worked with down there, but he didn't remember the other boy's name.




Oswald being on the move walking in a direction away from the stairs 90 seconds after the assassination while there is commotion and bedlam happening just outside, and just to get a coke is simply illogical! But Oswald coming down from the 6th floor and quickly hiding in the lunchroom after hearing Truly shout up the elevator shaft is perfectly logical.

After hours of interrogation, Oswald slipped up.

Mr. HOLMES. ... Then he said when all this commotion started, "I just went on downstairs." And he didn't say whether he took the elevator or not. He said, "I went down, and as I started to go out and see what it was all about,

How can you go downstairs when the commotion began when you are already on the first floor? When you don't start from the truth, liars always become unstuck.

Mr. FRITZ. .....  I asked him what part of the building at the time the President was shot. He said he was having lunch at about this time on the first floor.

JohnM
« Last Edit: May 04, 2025, 05:54:46 AM by John Mytton »

Offline Martin Weidmann

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7948
Re: How exactly did the shooter get down from the sixth floor?
« Reply #38 on: May 04, 2025, 02:09:09 PM »
It's pretty funny that 60+ years later that the CT's still haven't come up with a viable alternative to the rock solid evidence of the official version.

Oswald was a loon who ffs defected to Russia at the height of the cold war and when he wasn't accepted by Russia, Oswald slit his wrists, who the heck, besides someone who's verifiably insane, does that?
Oswald also attempted to assassinate General Walker, further proving he was a murderous nutcase!

But getting back to this problem;

Oswald's rifle with his prints was discovered on the same floor as eyewitnesses saw a man with a rifle.

What happened to the slender man seen on the 6th floor with a rifle, how did HE escape? -crickets-

Oswald's relatively fresh prints were discovered in the sniper's nest and most importantly Oswald's prints which were oriented down Elm street were left on the perfectly sized rifle rest box which was moved half way across the 6th floor.





Adams story is full of holes, she said she saw Lovelady and Shelley on the first floor, impossible if she left "immediately".

Styles later recalled that she was pretty sure that they went to the lift first and looking at the plan of the 4th floor, that makes perfect sense, because why go all the way to the rear of the building when the far closer elevator will take you down to the front of the building. And besides walking down multiple floors of stairs while wearing 3 inch heels wouldn't IMO be the first choice.


Oswald's alibi where he says he had lunch with Junior never happened.

Mr. BALL. And you asked him again, didn't you, what he was doing at the time the President was shot?
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. What did he say?
Mr. FRITZ. Well, he told me about the same story about this lunch.
Mr. BALL. He mentioned who he was having lunch with, did he not?
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir; he told me he was having lunch when the President was shot.
Mr. BALL. With whom?
Mr. FRITZ. With someone called Junior, someone he worked with down there, but he didn't remember the other boy's name.




Oswald being on the move walking in a direction away from the stairs 90 seconds after the assassination while there is commotion and bedlam happening just outside, and just to get a coke is simply illogical! But Oswald coming down from the 6th floor and quickly hiding in the lunchroom after hearing Truly shout up the elevator shaft is perfectly logical.

After hours of interrogation, Oswald slipped up.

Mr. HOLMES. ... Then he said when all this commotion started, "I just went on downstairs." And he didn't say whether he took the elevator or not. He said, "I went down, and as I started to go out and see what it was all about,

How can you go downstairs when the commotion began when you are already on the first floor? When you don't start from the truth, liars always become unstuck.

Mr. FRITZ. .....  I asked him what part of the building at the time the President was shot. He said he was having lunch at about this time on the first floor.

JohnM

Classic LN stuff. Cherry picking evidence and ignoring the rest. Comments designed to make you assume Oswald was on the 6th floor at 12:30 and, of course, not a shred of hard conclusive evidence that he actually was.

Online Royell Storing

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3305
Re: How exactly did the shooter get down from the sixth floor?
« Reply #39 on: May 04, 2025, 05:53:36 PM »

  NONE of that mountain of stuff above puts Oswald firing shots out of the 6th Floor Sniper's Nest. NONE of it. I believe he was involved, but firing shots out of the window and then leaving his traceable rifle behind? Nope! And, I believe the Adams stated timeline is not correct based on the Lovelady and Shelly WC Q/A. I also believe the Officer Baker & Roy Truly timeline has been "fudged" pretty good too. Everybody keeps timing how long it would take a shooter to go from the 6th Floor to the 2nd Floor Lunchroom. I think it took Baker/Truly longer to even begin using the stairwell to get Up to the 2nd Floor. This gave a shooter much more time to go from the 6th Floor and all the way Down the stairwell to the basement level and then EXIT either via the Huge Gates, (YES they were OPEN), and onto the Elm St Ext, or simply walk straight through to the loading dock that led straight into the railroad yard. If you know the layout of the TSBD and the ATTACHED buildings, You know how easily this can be done. And there was easily enough time to do this. Clean as a whistle.   

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: How exactly did the shooter get down from the sixth floor?
« Reply #39 on: May 04, 2025, 05:53:36 PM »