JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate > JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate
The Warren Commission Sham
Dan O'meara:
--- Quote from: Tom Graves on March 31, 2025, 05:09:23 PM ---1) Who brought Oswald's short-rifle into the TSBD and put it on the sixth floor?
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I know nothing about rifles but I am a bit confused about why you keep calling it a "short-rifle". As I understand it, Oswald ordered and paid for a 36" rifle but the rifle found on the 6th floor was a 40" rifle. Would they both be referred to as short-rifles?
There are a multitude of details about this case that trouble me and one is Oswald supposedly disassembling his rifle before bringing it to work. I never understood that. Even disassembled this rifle was 36" which was the same length as the rifle he originally ordered so it's not like he was bringing a package to work that wasn't the length of a rifle. And why did he feel the need to make a special case for it when he already had one at home? And when did he make this paper case? Because of the tape used he would have had to have made it at the wrapping table. When did that happen? Why would he think to do that? Troy West hardly ever left his position at the wrapping table, even during lunch. And why did Frazier and his sister constantly insist the package Oswald carried was so short it couldn't possibly have carried a rifle, disassembled or not. They were hardly more than kids being threatened by the DPD, why not just say it was a few inches longer?
Fortunately, because I don't believe Oswald took the shots and was an unwitting participant in the assassination, I don't have to bother with any of this.
The ideal situation would be to have a conspirator who arrived at the TSBD before anyone else did and had the place to himself. He could place a fully assembled rifle wherever he wanted. What we do know is that Oswald didn't assemble the rifle as he hid in the southeast corner of the 6th floor after the floor-laying crew had gone down to lunch.
--- Quote ---2) What "tampered" ballistics evidence prevents you from believing the bullets were fired from it?
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Apart from a couple of small pieces removed from JFK's head and some tiny fragments found in the limo ALL the ballistic evidence is highly dubious in terms of how it was handled.
--- Quote ---3) Where do you believe CE-399 was found -- in the limo or in Parkland Hospital?
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Neither.
--- Quote ---4) How did CE-399 end up with no damage to its nose?
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It never struck JBC's wrist bone.
Tom Graves:
--- Quote ---The ideal situation would be to have a conspirator arrive at the TSBD before anyone else did and have the place to himself.
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A conspirator with Oswald's short-rifle?
--- Quote ---Apart from a couple of small pieces removed from JFK's head and some tiny fragments found in the limo, ALL of the ballistic evidence is highly dubious in terms of how it was handled.
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How were the large bullet fragments that were found inside the limo and matched to Oswald's short-rifle mishandled?
--- Quote ---I believe CE-399 was found neither in the limo nor in Parkland Hospital. (paraphrased)
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How did a bad guy or bad gal get it admitted into evidence?
--- Quote ---CE-399 never struck JBC's wrist bone.
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How, specifically, did your two conspirators damage CE-399, and why did they deform it so strangely?
Dan O'meara:
--- Quote from: Tom Graves on March 31, 2025, 09:17:45 PM ---A conspirator with Oswald's short-rifle?
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Maybe.
It saves on all the disassembled rifle shtick.
Why might a conspirator have Oswald's rifle? Because he was fooled into handing it over or he was ordered to hand it over or he handed it over willingly or....
--- Quote ---How were the large bullet fragments that were found inside the limo and matched to Oswald's short-rifle mishandled?
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They weren't found as part of an investigation.
An unnamed Secret Service agent handed them over to Deputy Chief Paul Paterni who handed them to Orrin Bartlett of the FBI.
Apparently.
--- Quote ---How did a bad guy or bad gal get it admitted into evidence?
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By handing it over to the FBI
--- Quote ---How, specifically, did your two conspirators create the damage to CE-399, and why did they deform it so strangely?
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??
The two conspirators had nothing to do with CE399 or any damage to it.
Darell Tomlinson found a bullet in Parkland. He handed this bullet to O P Wright.
The bullet Wright received was a "hunting slug" with a pointed tip. It was not CE399, Wright is adamant about that.
Wright handed this pointed bullet to SSA Johnsen, who then handed it to Chief Rowley.
All four of these men refused to identify CE399 as the bullet they handled that day.
Wright and Johnsen were not asked to testify by the WC.
Rowley testified but was never asked about the bullet.
Unbelievably, Darrell Tomlinson, the man who discovered the bullet, testified and was not asked a single question about the bullet!!
Let that sink in. He wasn't given the bullet to identify, or shown a picture of it or even asked to just describe it. What a joke.
As part of the Sham, CE399 was entered into evidence "subject to further proof". This proof never materialized and was never going to materialize.
Nobody ever vouched for CE399 as the bullet found in Parkland.
Wright categorically denied that CE399 was the bullet.
CE399 magically appears in the chain of custody when Elmer Todd hands it over to Robert Frazier.
Tom Graves:
--- Quote ---Why might a conspirator have Oswald's rifle? Because he was fooled into handing it over, or he was ordered to hand it over, or he handed it over willingly, or ...
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Oswald may have been fooled by whom into handing his short-rifle over to them? -- By one of your two conspirators? Can you imagine a plausible scenario in which that occurred?
Handed it over when? That morning?
Oswald may have been ordered to hand his short-rifle over to them? By one of your two conspirators that morning?
Oswald may have handed his short-rifle over willingly to one of your two conspirators? Does that sound like something Oswald would do?
--- Quote ---The large bullet fragments weren't found as part of an investigation.
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What's your definition of "investigation"?
--- Quote ---An unnamed Secret Service agent handed them over to Deputy Chief Paul Paterni who handed them to Orrin Bartlett of the FBI.
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If they lied, doesn't that make them conspirators?
--- Quote ---By handing it over to the FBI.
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Do you think the FBI conspired in the "patsy-ing," the shooting, or the cover up?
--- Quote ---The two conspirators had nothing to do with CE399 or any damage to it.
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If your two conspirators had nothing to do with CE-399, who created it, how did they create it with such unusual damage (none to the nose, but flattened in the rear and lead core extruded out its base), and who "planted" it?
Lance Payette:
--- Quote from: Dan O'meara on March 31, 2025, 09:00:51 PM ---I know nothing about rifles but I am a bit confused about why you keep calling it a "short-rifle". As I understand it, Oswald ordered and paid for a 36" rifle but the rifle found on the 6th floor was a 40" rifle. Would they both be referred to as short-rifles,
[Clipped the remainder]
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Tom wasn't asking you to do so, but you never flesh out your conspiracy theory sufficiently to expose how complex, unlikely and silly it is. Sure, LBJ and Byrd hatched the plot, Byrd recruited Cason without telling him of LBJ's involvement, Cason recruited Shelley without telling him of LBJ's or Byrd's involvement, Shelley recruited a TSBD employee without telling him of LBJ's, Byrd's or Cason's involvement, and poor Oswald thought it was just another day at work. Simple, uncomplicated, no problem.
We'll start at the bottom: "An employee" of the TSBD does the shooting. This employee, according to what you have suggested, is recruited by Bill Shelley. Is any known employee of the TSBD a plausible recruit? Who? On what basis? How is this employee convinced by Bill Shelley to shoot the President of the United States? What is offered to this employee for these remarkable services? Is there any evidence that this employee subsequently came into great wealth or otherwise benefitted to an extent commensurate with the unbelievable risks he took? Did this employee die a mysterious death almost immediately after the assassination or was he allowed to walk around as a ticking time bomb for years?
Who had control of Oswald while the gunman employee was doing the shooting? It obviously wasn't Shelley. Was there no control of Oswald at all - what sense would that make? How did Oswald manage to walk out of the building? Why did he walk out of the building, go home and get his pistol and all the rest? Why didn't he cooperate with the authorities once he was in custody?
How did Oswald's rifle get into the building? Did Shelley sneak into Ruth Paine's garage? Was it just pure happenstance that Oswald picked the night before the assassination to go to Ruth's for curtain rods, left the light on in the garage, and left Marina with a large amount of cash and his wedding ring?
Shelley, we are told, was recruited by TSBD President Jack Cason. How and why? What would have made Shelley amenable to participating in a plot to assassinate the President of the United States? He spent his entire working life, 40 years, at the TSBD - is there any evidence he subsequently came into great wealth or otherwise benefitted to an extent commensurate with the unbelievable risks he took? He lived until 1996 - no one had any concern he might crack?
If Shelley recruited the assassin and presumably made at least minimal arrangements for the control of Oswald, how do we explain his actions during the motorcade and after the shots were fired? He just stood on the TSBD steps, walked down toward the railroad tracks with Lovelady, etc. - really? He offered nothing incriminating about his chosen patsy, no ironclad alibi for the gunman he had recruited - really? He wasn't even bright enough to clean up those incriminating chicken bones in the sniper's nest (BWAHAHA).
Cason was home eating lunch when the assassination happened. What would have made Byrd think Cason would be amenable to participating in a plot to assassinate the POTUS? What did the wealthy Byrd promise Cason? Is there any evidence Cason came into great wealth or otherwise benefitted from the unbelievable risks he took? Why would Cason have thought of recruiting Shelley and why would he have trusted him? He lived until 1985 - no one had any concern he might crack?
Cason was recruited by the very wealthy David Harold Byrd. Why would Byrd have entrusted Cason with a plot that would get them both executed if discovered? Why would Byrd have trusted Cason to recruit Shelley and Shelley to recruit some TSBD employee?
Byrd, you say, either hatched the plot and sold it to LBJ or vice versa. How would this have worked? LBJ was going to trust his life to Byrd, Cason, Shelley and some TSBD employee - really? You can talk about "compartmentalization" all you want, but if this went wrong at the Shelley or gunman level everyone was going to fry. What story could the gunman have told that wouldn't implicate Shelley - and who could be confident he wouldn't implicate Shelley? What story could Shelley have told that wouldn't implicate Cason - and who could be confident he wouldn't implicate Cason? Likewise Cason with Byrd, and Byrd with LBJ?
Oh, yes, I know - Shelley was "ex-CIA," Cason was active with the American Legion, blah blah blah. It's all "Six Degrees of Separation from Kevin Bacon" sort of nonsense and doesn't begin to explain the five participants' mutual participation in a plot to kill the President of the United States.
And BTW, what was the necessity of all the post-assassination shenanigans you posit? Why did the WC need to be a sham? You appear to me to be arguing out of both sides of your mouth, or perhaps you aren't convinced by your own "simple and uncomplicated" theory?
Your theory, in my humble opinion, is completely irrational. I'm done with you, but Tom might be fascinated by your explanation as to how your theory makes any sense at all.
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