A hole in Bledsoe's story?

[Dan O'meara]

Why did Sorrels take the shirt out to Bledsoe?

What is your source that Sorrels took the shirt out to Bledsoe? Just Bledsoe's testimony? Or is there something else that corroborates it?

I'm possibly conflating these two pieces of testimony, one where Bledsoe insists a Secret Service agent brought the shirt out to the house and the other about Sorrels being out at the house. I'm not 100% sure whether Sorrels had the shirt with him when he visited Bledsoe's house.
If Bledsoe was wrong about a Secret Service man bringing it out I'm surprised her attorney, Miss Douthit, doesn't correct her as she seems quite on top of things. On the other hand, Bledsoe seems to think anyone in a suit is Secret Service.

Mr. BALL: But, before you go into that, I notice you have been reading from some notes before you.

Mrs. BLEDSOE: Well, because I forget what I have to say.

Mr. BALL: When did you make those notes?

Mrs. BLEDSOE: What day did I make them?

Miss DOUTHIT: When Mr. Sorrels and I were talking about her going to Washington, he made the suggestion that she put all the things down on paper because she might forget something, and I said, "Mary, you put everything on a piece of paper so that you can remember it and you won't forget anything, you know, what happened," and that's when she started making notes.

Mr. BALL: You have made the notes in the last week?

Mrs. BLEDSOE: Yes.

Miss DOUTHIT: At my suggestion and Mr. Sorrels.

...

Mr. BALL: Who had it out there?

Mrs. BLEDSOE: Some Secret Service man.

Mr. BALL: He brought it out. Now, I am---you have seen this shirt then before?

Mrs. BLEDSOE: Yes.

Mr. BALL: It was brought out by the Secret Service man and shown to you?

Mrs. BLEDSOE: Yes.

Personally,I don't think there's anything 'conspiratorial' about this shirt issue, it's more just an interest in how the investigation operated. You don't seem to think it's weird that investigating authorities, be it Secret Service or FBI, went out to her house with a piece of evidence. As Martin points out, it has clearly affected Bledsoe's remembering of the incident on the bus and may indicate some kind of coercion as the dark brown shirt Bledsoe identifies may well not have been the shirt Oswald wore to work that day.
For me it's hard to know whether Bledsoe confirms that Oswald was wearing the same shirt to work he was arrested in, or whether she 'remembered' the shirt due to someone coming out to the house and saying something along the lines of "this is the shirt Oswald was wearing when you saw him".
It really muddies the waters if it was the FBI looking for confirmation of the fibre evidence they had discovered.

[Charles Collins]

I'm possibly conflating these two pieces of testimony, one where Bledsoe insists a Secret Service agent brought the shirt out to the house and the other about Sorrels being out at the house. I'm not 100% sure whether Sorrels had the shirt with him when he visited Bledsoe's house.
If Bledsoe was wrong about a Secret Service man bringing it out I'm surprised her attorney, Miss Douthit, doesn't correct her as she seems quite on top of things. On the other hand, Bledsoe seems to think anyone in a suit is Secret Service.

Mr. BALL: But, before you go into that, I notice you have been reading from some notes before you.

Mrs. BLEDSOE: Well, because I forget what I have to say.

Mr. BALL: When did you make those notes?

Mrs. BLEDSOE: What day did I make them?

Miss DOUTHIT: When Mr. Sorrels and I were talking about her going to Washington, he made the suggestion that she put all the things down on paper because she might forget something, and I said, "Mary, you put everything on a piece of paper so that you can remember it and you won't forget anything, you know, what happened," and that's when she started making notes.

Mr. BALL: You have made the notes in the last week?

Mrs. BLEDSOE: Yes.

Miss DOUTHIT: At my suggestion and Mr. Sorrels.

...

Mr. BALL: Who had it out there?

Mrs. BLEDSOE: Some Secret Service man.

Mr. BALL: He brought it out. Now, I am---you have seen this shirt then before?

Mrs. BLEDSOE: Yes.

Mr. BALL: It was brought out by the Secret Service man and shown to you?

Mrs. BLEDSOE: Yes.

Personally,I don't think there's anything 'conspiratorial' about this shirt issue, it's more just an interest in how the investigation operated. You don't seem to think it's weird that investigating authorities, be it Secret Service or FBI, went out to her house with a piece of evidence. As Martin points out, it has clearly affected Bledsoe's remembering of the incident on the bus and may indicate some kind of coercion as the dark brown shirt Bledsoe identifies may well not have been the shirt Oswald wore to work that day.
For me it's hard to know whether Bledsoe confirms that Oswald was wearing the same shirt to work he was arrested in, or whether she 'remembered' the shirt due to someone coming out to the house and saying something along the lines of "this is the shirt Oswald was wearing when you saw him".
It really muddies the waters if it was the FBI looking for confirmation of the fibre evidence they had discovered.

You don't seem to think it's weird that investigating authorities, be it Secret Service or FBI, went out to her house with a piece of evidence.

No I don’t think that its weird at all. Especially when we consider that the FBI had been ordered by LBJ to investigate the facts; that the Warren Commission had only been created a few days prior to 12/4/63 (the date of the FBI report that indicates two FBI agents showed the shirt to Bledsoe); and that the Warren Commission had not even had their first formal meeting or even decided how to organize themselves yet. Keep in mind that LHO was already dead, and that there could therefore be no trial. When put into the above specified context, the FBI agents showing Bledsoe the shirt appears to me to be within the bounds of the law and a perfectly legitimate way to determine whether or not Bledsoe would recognize the shirt. The FBI agents at Bledsoe’s house had no way of knowing what direction the Warren Commission would ultimately go with their investigation. I think that they were simply doing what they were instructed to do.

The whole idea of “muddying up the water” and implying something sinister is simply biased distrust of the authorities and makes no sense whatsoever.

[Martin Weidmann]

You don't seem to think it's weird that investigating authorities, be it Secret Service or FBI, went out to her house with a piece of evidence.

No I don’t think that its weird at all. Especially when we consider that the FBI had been ordered by LBJ to investigate the facts; that the Warren Commission had only been created a few days prior to 12/4/63 (the date of the FBI report that indicates two FBI agents showed the shirt to Bledsoe); and that the Warren Commission had not even had their first formal meeting or even decided how to organize themselves yet. Keep in mind that LHO was already dead, and that there could therefore be no trial. When put into the above specified context, the FBI agents showing Bledsoe the shirt appears to me to be within the bounds of the law and a perfectly legitimate way to determine whether or not Bledsoe would recognize the shirt. The FBI agents at Bledsoe’s house had no way of knowing what direction the Warren Commission would ultimately go with their investigation. I think that they were simply doing what they were instructed to do.

The whole idea of “muddying up the water” and implying something sinister is simply biased distrust of the authorities and makes no sense whatsoever.

No I don’t think that its weird at all.

If it is indeed not weird, can you name one other instance where the FBI or the Secret Service took a piece of evidence to a witness' house?

[Michael Capasse]

Mary Bledsoe was Oswald's landlady for 7 days in Oct '63.  She was also one of the longest witnesses on the stand, mostly fluff.
She kept records of her boarders on a calendar. Inexplicably, she no longer had Oct. in her papers.

They were trying get her to confirm the shirt she may have seen on the bus. Based on the unqualified uncertainty of her
character, most of her identification should have been rendered meaningless. Reading her entire testimony, one can see a tag
team effort by the WC attorneys, with additional help from Bledsoe's own attorney. When Bledsoe consistently proclaimed her
lack of knowledge, her own attorney objected, "Mary, pardon me, this is not for the record." WC Attorney Jenner, allowed that in.

Twice they tried to get her to say she had seen a long package or curtain rods brought in or out of the house.
She did not see any such thing.

Mr. JENNER - Anything that you thought could be curtain rods or----
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Uh-huh.

Mr. JENNER - Or shades that are on the spring, did he ever have any package that looked as though that sort of thing might be contained in it?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - No.

------------------------------------
Mr. JENNER - Was there ever an occasion when you saw him in possession, either in his room, or carrying a long object wrapped in paper or a blanket or---
Mrs. BLEDSOE - No.

Mr. JENNER - Or something as long as 45 inches long?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - No.

Mr. JENNER - Seven or eight inches wide?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Didn't have anything like that with him.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
She quickly let it be known she did not like Lee very much. At one point she asked him to leave, then refused to pay his balance of rent.
One reason for eviction was he sometimes spoke in a foreign language on the phone; "I don't like anybody talking in a foreign language."
Specifically on the shirt, she was prepared what to say by SSA Sorrels. She went over what was expected of her prior to her testimony.
Attorney Ball, did not ask her how she knew what was going to be asked. Nearly all witnesses were previewed for what they could provide.
She gave it away when Ball asked her if she had seen the shirt prior to Secret Service bring it to her. She said, "No."

Mr. BALL - It was brought out by the Secret Service man and shown to you?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Yes.

Mr. BALL - Had you ever seen the shirt before that?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Well---

Mr. BALL - Have you?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - No; he had it on, though.

Mr. BALL - Who had it on?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Oswald.

Mr. BALL - Oswald had it on?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Oswald had it on.

How could she have not seen the shirt before SS showed her, and then Oswald somehow had it on? Ball led her to say it in another round.
They are cherry picking and leading her to the answer they want. She makes conflicting statements that render any value useless.
She didn't pay attention to that shirt anymore than Frazier paid attention to the bag. Funny, how LNs work that way.

Mr. BALL - First time you ever saw the shirt was when you saw him on the bus?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Uh-huh.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
When describing the man's trousers, she said they were "...gray, and all ragged in here...at the waist?....uh, huh.
She was then shown both Exhibits CE 156 and CE 157, she said it could not have been CE 157, because "...it was ragged at the top"

There is no confidence in her answers. Then, she conceded it must have been CE 156.
Ball was leading her to say CE157, because Brennan had said a lighter color pants but she won't do it.

Mr. BALL - This other pair of pants, 156, does that look like any of the pants he had on?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - That must have been it, but seemed like it was ragged up at the top.

Mr. BALL - But, you think 156 may have been the pair of pants he had on?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Yes.

Mr. BALL - You think CE 157---don't pay any attention to the fact that it is cut up does CE 157 look anything like the pants he had on?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - No; I don't---

Finally, despite her vivid description of appearance and obvious dislike for Oswald, she did not connect him to the assassination even
after hearing his name. "...they kept talking about this boy Oswald and had on a brown shirt, and all of a sudden, well, I declare..."
She contacted her son, he called the police and she went down to the station the next day.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
This is a fine example of the Commission following the mandate it was given by the Katzenbach Memo back in Nov. '63.
"The public must be satisfied that Oswald was the assassin; that he did not have confederates who are still at large.."
Doubts of Oswald having even been on the bus, as well as other witnesses that saw a man look like him get into a car, remain.

Deputy Sheriff Roger Craig, was directing traffic at the top of Houston and Elm St., when he heard the shrill of a whistle from just ahead.
He looked over, and saw that a white male, standing at the west end of TSBD, had signaled this same vehicle Richard Carr had just seen.
This man ran down the embankment and piled into this light colored Nash Rambler station wagon, already filled with other Spanish looking men.
Without knowing who this guy was, Craig tried to pursue the wagon, but was then slowed by excessive traffic before he could close enough to it.
https://jfk.boards.net/post/3554

Roy Cooper, was following his boss, Marvin Robinson, through Dealey Plaza on their way to drop off Marvin's car, to then return to work.
Both drivers saw the same Nash Rambler station wagon, and both saw the man run down the embankment and get into the car.
In fact, when the vehicle merged back in, "...This station wagon pulled out real fast front of the Cadillac driven by his boss
and his employer had to stop abruptly and nearly hit this Nash Rambler." Neither mean paid attention to the look of the man,
or the driver, or even the state license plate. https://jfk.boards.net/post/3554

"Helen Forrest, witnessed the same scene Roger Craig did, but from the opposite side of the street. Forrest, told historian Michael Kurtz,
she was on the incline by the grassy knoll, when she, "...saw a man suddenly run from the rear of the Depository building, down
the incline, and then enter a Rambler station wagon." Like Roger Craig, Helen Forrest, was clear in identifying the running man.
"If it wasn't Oswald," she said, "it was his identical twin." [Quoted from: Douglass, James W. - JFK and the Unspeakable] https://jfk.boards.net/post/7693

It is not clear or reliable testimony. She had a prejudice against him, and although the two may have been on the bus. Lee got off.
Some ten minutes after the shooting, 4 witnesses, (2 of which) said a man that looked like Lee Oswald was seen leaving the plaza in a car full of Cubans.

https://jfk.boards.net/post/7693

[Charles Collins]

It was not unusual for the FBI to go to homes and places of business to interview people. It was not unusual for witnesses to be shown evidence by the FBI. Off the top of my head I can name Hosty’s visits to Ruth Paine’s home and Odum’s showing CE 399 to Tomlinson & Wright on 6/12/64. I am sure there are many other examples. So, no, I do not think it was at all weird for Bledsoe to be shown CE 150 in her home.

[Martin Weidmann]

It was not unusual for the FBI to go to homes and places of business to interview people. It was not unusual for witnesses to be shown evidence by the FBI. Off the top of my head I can name Hosty’s visits to Ruth Paine’s home and Odum’s showing CE 399 to Tomlinson & Wright on 6/12/64. I am sure there are many other examples. So, no, I do not think it was at all weird for Bledsoe to be shown CE 150 in her home.

It was not unusual for the FBI to go to homes and places of business to interview people.

Nobody said it was.

It was not unusual for witnesses to be shown evidence by the FBI.

Again, nobody said it was.

What made the Bledsoe visit stand out is that they took the shirt to her home before her WC testimony.

Off the top of my head I can name Hosty’s visits to Ruth Paine’s home

Please refresh my memory? What exactly did Hosty do at Ruth Paine's home?

Odum’s showing CE 399 to Tomlinson & Wright on 6/12/64

Hardly the same as Bledsoe. Specter took testimony from Tomlinson but, although he asked him about where the bullet was found, he failed to show the actual bullet to the witness making it impossible for him to identify CE399.
And Wright didn't testify or give any other statement to the WC and was never shown CE399.

It was only when the WC questioned the chain of custody for several pieces of evidence, that Odum allegedly showed CE399 to Tomlinson and Wright to get an identification. An event that Odum denied ever happened and for which no internal FBI report exists.

[Charles Collins]

It was not unusual for the FBI to go to homes and places of business to interview people.

Nobody said it was.

It was not unusual for witnesses to be shown evidence by the FBI.

Again, nobody said it was.

What made the Bledsoe visit stand out is that they took the shirt to her home before her WC testimony.

Off the top of my head I can name Hosty’s visits to Ruth Paine’s home

Please refresh my memory? What exactly did Hosty do at Ruth Paine's home?

Odum’s showing CE 399 to Tomlinson & Wright on 6/12/64

Hardly the same as Bledsoe. Specter took testimony from Tomlinson but, although he asked him about where the bullet was found, he failed to show the actual bullet to the witness making it impossible for him to identify CE399.
And Wright didn't testify or give any other statement to the WC and was never shown CE399.

It was only when the WC questioned the chain of custody for several pieces of evidence, that Odum allegedly showed CE399 to Tomlinson and Wright to get an identification. An event that Odum denied ever happened and for which no internal FBI report exists.

What made the Bledsoe visit stand out is that they took the shirt to her home before her WC testimony.

The FBI had no way of knowing on 12/4/63 that there was even going to be any WC testimony. Why does this supposedly “stand out” or even matter? It is only typical CT nonsense that tries (and fails) to make something out of nothing at all.