Oswald took 10.2 seconds to fire all three shots.

[Tom Graves]

  So now we have people wanting to stamp as fact that the 1st shot missed? Not only do we Not even have a remnant of that bullet, we have no solid image evidence of it striking anything either. This is why guys like Holland putting out baloney like this need to be run up-and-down the flagpole right outta the gate. Over time, people repeat this stuff until it is generally accepted as being fact. And a shooter from a standing position firing Down through a half open window is further baloney. What proof is there of that? None!

I've already mentioned in this thread some of the circumstantial evidence suggesting that the first shot was fired at hypothetical "Z-124," i.e., half-a-second before Zapruder resumed filming at Z-133. For example, have you read the 22-page article titled "Estimating Occult Timing of Surprise Gunshot Sounds in Silent Film via Observed Start of Human Voluntary Reactions of Concern"? You can read it for free by googling "estimating occult timing".

In "Cold Case JFK," it was shown that that kind of bullet doesn't produce recoverable fragments but disintegrates when fired at a sharp angle into asphalt.

Do you think Oswald was innocent?

If so, how many bad guys do you figure were involved in the planning, the "patsy-ing," the shooting, and the cover up?

[Charles Collins]

I don't know how tall Secret Service agent John Howlett was, but the 11/27/63 reenactment photo shows him sitting on your beloved box (apparently in its correct position) and assuming a shooting position similar to what the "Oswald" actor does in "The Lost Bullet" for the 2nd and 3rd shots, so I guess it's plausible that 5' 9" Oswald fired those shots while sitting on it with one bun on and one bun off, just like Howlett was doing as he was pretending to shoot.

More importantly, given the fact that we now know that Oswald fired his first, missing-everything, shot at hypothetical "Z-124," (half-a-second before Zapruder resumed filming at Z-133) and we know that the window was only about 1/3 open (going from memory here), that Oswald had to stand and awkwardly lean forward while firing the steeply-downward-angled shot, and that this is corroborated by the fact that in a digitally enhanced clip from the Robert Hughes film which is embedded in "The Lost Bullet," we can see something light-colored (LHO's t-shirt?) moving in the window about five seconds before the first shot rang (or banged, boomed, or popped?) out.

I don't know how tall Secret Service agent John Howlett was, but the 11/27/63 reenactment photo shows him sitting on your beloved box (apparently in its correct position) and assuming a shooting position similar to what the "Oswald" actor does in "The Lost Bullet" for the 2nd and 3rd shots, so I guess it's plausible that 5' 9" Oswald fired those shots while sitting on it with one bun on and one bun off, just like Howlett was doing as he was pretending to shoot.

There is no reason to assume the seat box was in the correct position in the Howlett photo. In fact it appears to me to not be correct but slightly further away from the window.

Here is a photo from a similar angle to the Howlett photo that shows a model of the box in the correct position. Compare that with the Howlett photo as you wish.





Here is a couple of photos showing how the sniper could sit straight up while firmly on the seat box. He and his rifle are concealed by the wall and the boxes from Hughes' camera angle.






The next three photos show that the sniper only had to raise the rifle up to his shoulder and aim his three shots. This takes very very little time to do. The three targets are Z160, Z224, & Z313.








Here is an over-the-shoulder photo showing three labeled targets at their proper angles from the position of the rifle in the window.




Any shots earlier than Z160 would have been very awkward but not impossible from a sitting position. Plus, the window box and the metal conduit both become potential interference. I simply do not believe he would have taken an earlier shot intentionally.



More importantly, given the fact that we now know that Oswald fired his first, missing-everything, shot at hypothetical "Z-124," (half-a-second before Zapruder resumed filming at Z-133) and we know that the window was only about 1/3 open (going from memory here), that Oswald had to stand and awkwardly lean forward while firing the steeply-downward-angled shot, and that this is corroborated by the fact that in a digitally enhanced clip from the Robert Hughes film which is embedded in "The Lost Bullet," we can see something light-colored (LHO's t-shirt?) moving in the window about five seconds before the first shot rang (or banged, boomed, or popped?) out.

We do not "know" any of those things. Your opinions are not facts. Here is a screenshot from "JFK: The Lost Bullet" showing the sniper's nest window just before the shots. The light colored stack of boxes are in the middle (horizontally) of the window. If the sniper was standing his white shirt would be well above the 1/4 open bottom portion of the window. If he was seated it would be seen in the open portion to the camera right of the boxes. Personally I think I see something in the open portion. But it is definitely not definitive enough to say for certain.

[Tom Graves]

There is no reason to assume the seat box was in the correct position in the Howlett photo. In fact it appears to me to not be correct but slightly further away from the window.

It doesn't matter to me whether or not the seat box was accurately placed in the reenactment. I have no problem with Oswald's having sat on it while firing his 2nd and 3rd shots if it was physically possible for him to do so.

What's important is that Oswald's standing (and awkwardly leaning forward) for his first, missing-everything shot through the slightly open window is indicated by 1) the conscious reactions of several of the witnesses to the sounds of the first shot which indicate that it was fired at "Z-124" -- thereby making it steeply-downward-angled, 2) the digitally enhanced Hughes film, where the standing sniper (Oswald) can be seen moving in the Sniper's Nest window about five seconds before he started shooting, 3) the fact that several of the witnesses said the first shot sounded muffled or "different" from the other two, and 4) the ejection pattern of the three shells found on the Sniper's Nest floor.

I'm afraid your notion that the first shot was fired at Z-160 is mistaken.

[Charles Collins]

I don't care whether or not the seat box was accurately placed in the reenactment. I have no problem with Oswald's having sat on it while firing his 2nd and 3rd shots if it was physically possible for him to do so.

What's important is that Oswald's standing (and awkwardly leaning forward) for his first, missing-everything shot through the slightly open window is indicated by 1) the conscious reactions of several of the witnesses to the sounds of the first shot which indicate that it was fired at "Z-124" -- thereby making it steeply-downward-angled, 2) the digitally enhanced Hughes film, where the standing sniper (Oswald) can be seen moving in the Sniper's Nest window about five seconds before he started shooting, and 3) the ejection pattern of the three shells found on the Sniper's Nest floor.

I'm afraid your notion that the first shot was fired at Z-160 is mistaken.

The seat box was in the way of a standing or kneeling sniper. Therefore it was not feasible for anyone to stand in that position to shoot.

I didn’t say that I thought the shot was fired at Z160. Although there is significant evidence that it could have been. You should be able to see in my photos that the sniper has to sit up straighter to get higher even for a shot at Z160. A shot from a seated position earlier than Z160 would take even more contortions plus the interference of the window box becomes more likely.

Contrary to your opinions, there is no credible evidence that the sniper was standing for a first shot. The timing evidence only suggests a possible early shot. I haven’t seen any evidence that suggests a standing sniper in the window in the Hughes film. The ejection pattern evidence is interesting but no where near enough to be convincing.

It appears to me that if there was an early shot, it was most likely inadvertent. That might explain why it missed the entire limo. On the other hand, if it had been an intentional standing early shot as you contend, I would expect that the awkwardness could affect accuracy. But I do not believe that the awkwardness alone would be likely to affect accuracy enough to completely miss the limo.

It is your prerogative to believe whatever you wish to believe. I frankly couldn’t care less. I do suggest however that you present your opinions as opinions instead of trying to present your opinions as facts.

[Tom Graves]

The seat box was in the way of a standing or kneeling sniper. Therefore it was not feasible for anyone to stand in that position to shoot.

I didn't say Oswald or anyone else was standing there.

Regardless, I wonder if you realize I think Oswald stood and leaned forward awkwardly for his first shot, and that he either sat on your box or kneeled for his second and third shots?

[Charles Collins]

I didn't say Oswald or anyone else was standing there.

Regardless, I wonder if you realize I think Oswald stood and leaned forward awkwardly for his first shot, and that he either sat on your box or kneeled for his second and third shots?

Do you believe that there was enough space available for a sniper to stand somewhere else besides where the box was positioned? If so, please show us exactly where that space was supposed to be.

[Andrew Mason]

The echoing of the three muzzle blasts and the three supersonic "cracks" created a cacophony of sound which fooled many witnesses into believing two of the three shots were close together.

Oh.  I didn’t realize you were there.