Oswald took 10.2 seconds to fire all three shots.

[Royell Storing]

10.2 secs? So just ignore the 2/3rds of the witness who heard the shots fired rapidly and the last 2 shots so close that they were described as “back to back”?

ignore Lee Bowers camera interview (recorded by Mark Lane)reenactment of the shots them rapping his hand on the desk in like 3 seconds.

Talk about “ full of beans” LOL

   This is what we get with Revisionist History: (1) A far longer duration of shots being fired, and (2) Moving the JFK Limo's physical position on Elm St. These guys never stop trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

[Andrew Mason]

if he was actually on Main?

Where in my post are you interpreting anything at all about them being on Main? Read it again please. Couch said the same thing that Jackson said except Couch said they “had just made the turn.” Both said they were looking back at Featherston scrambling for the roll of film.

I thought your position was that the first shot occurred 1/3 second before this first frame of Hughes last clip on Houston:

Where do you think the 3rd camera car is at that point? Since it is not yet in the frame, it must be still on Main St. It might be starting its turn onto Houston, but the entire car is still on Main St.

Do you really believe that they were still looking back at Featherston scrambling for the roll of film when they were half way down the block? Do you really believe that they were still looking back at Featherston scrambling for the roll of film over 3-seconds later (when you believe the first shot occurred?

Jackson said it was "approximately" that time (when they "all looked back at him and were laughing") that they heard the first shot.  He said that they were approximately half a block on Houston Street so I take it from that it was just a moment after the dropped film incident. He is relating the last moment that he recalled before the first shot. If so, then it occurred a moment after the last frame in Hughes' film, which shows the 3rd camera car almost up to the end of the first building on Houston:


According to Dale Myers, that last Hughes frame was exposed at the same time as Zapruder z185.  That fits with my analysis as well (a bit more than 2 seconds after z145).  It is not just Hughes and Jackson saying that this was before the first shot.  Betzner said it was after his z186 photo.  The occupants of the VP car said that they had completed the turn (it is still turning at z181). Phil Willis said it was an instant before his z202 photo. Occupants of the VP security car and witnesses along Elm provide a similar time for the first shot.  I would suggest that the convergence of all the evidence on a post z186 first shot is highly unlikely to be by random chance.

[Andrew Mason]

Why would he be mistaken in thinking he was almost halfway down Houston when the first shot was fired…

Because the human memories are not infallible.

But it is not just him.  It is Betzner, Linda Willis, Occupants of the VP (just completed the turn) and VP Security car (completing the turn - along side TSBD), witnesses along Elm St. (e.g. Billie Clay said she was standing 150 feet west of TSBD entrance:"Just a few seconds after the car in which President John F. Kennedy was riding passed the position where I was standing, I heard a shot." Sue Dickerson "I was standing at the curb on the north side of Elm Street about equal distance between the point where the President was shot and the west end of the Texas School Book Depository building.") Croft (enough time after his z161 photo for him to wind the film and press the shutter again) and Phil Willis (just before his z202 photo).

If you look at the Dale Myers’ timeline, Hughes film ends at frame 680. That frame 680 equates to Z185 (-7.00-seconds before Z133) around the same time that you believe that the first shot happened.

Definitely after, not before.  I suggest z193 as the time of the first shot.  Ready said he turned to his right upon hearing the first shot - he releases his right hand from the front hand-hold between z198 and z199).

Judging by the crosswalk stripes on Houston, camera car 3 has only moved forward less than one car-length (~20-feet?) from where it was when the Hughes film stopped for ~1/3-second (frame 630). It is obviously not “halfway down the block.” Jackson was apparently mistaken.

?? - It is well past the intersection when the last Hughes sequence on Houston ends and it happened after that.  Here is the last Hughes frame. 


Again, we don't see camera car 3 in the first Hughes frame after the 1/3 second break. 

[Charles Collins]

I thought your position was that the first shot occurred 1/3 second before this first frame of Hughes last clip on Houston:

Where do you think the 3rd camera car is at that point? Since it is not yet in the frame, it must be still on Main St. It might be starting its turn onto Houston, but the entire car is still on Main St.Jackson said it was "approximately" that time (when they "all looked back at him and were laughing") that they heard the first shot.  He said that they were approximately half a block on Houston Street so I take it from that it was just a moment after the dropped film incident. He is relating the last moment that he recalled before the first shot. If so, then it occurred a moment after the last frame in Hughes' film, which shows the 3rd camera car almost up to the end of the first building on Houston:


According to Dale Myers, that last Hughes frame was exposed at the same time as Zapruder z185.  That fits with my analysis as well (a bit more than 2 seconds after z145).  It is not just Hughes and Jackson saying that this was before the first shot.  Betzner said it was after his z186 photo.  The occupants of the VP car said that they had completed the turn (it is still turning at z181). Phil Willis said it was an instant before his z202 photo. Occupants of the VP security car and witnesses along Elm provide a similar time for the first shot.  I would suggest that the convergence of all the evidence on a post z186 first shot is highly unlikely to be by random chance.

I thought your position was that the first shot occurred 1/3 second before this first frame of Hughes last clip on Houston:


No, that appears to be H614 according to Dale Myers’ timeline. The six-frame, 1/3 second stoppage in the Hughes film occurs after H630 which clearly shows camera car 3 on Houston Street. The front of camera car 3 is in the crosswalk on Houston Street. The back of camera car 3 is not yet in the frame and would still be relatively close to Featherston on the corner.


Jackson said it was "approximately" that time (when they "all looked back at him and were laughing") that they heard the first shot.

I can believe that they were doing just that in frame H630. They have not quite made it into the frame yet. But when the film resumes in 1/3 second, frame H631, that appears to be what they are doing. By frame H638 we can see that Jackson himself is in the frame and looking back.


If so, then it occurred a moment after the last frame in Hughes' film, which shows the 3rd camera car almost up to the end of the first building on Houston:


The last frame in that sequence, H680, shows the car right behind camera car 3 to be in the crosswalk on Houston. There isn’t much space between that car and camera car 3. Therefore camera car 3 appears to be less than a car length further along Houston Street than the crosswalk on Houston at Main. That is nowhere near halfway down the block. The perspective (angle) from Hughe’s camera gives a false impression when you are looking at the buildings on the other side of the sidewalk. Couch said no one reacted to the first shot and it was not until the second shot that they began to turn away from the film roll retrieval by Featherston. This all fits just fine with the first shot happening close to the 6-frame, 1/3 second stoppage of the Hughes film.

[Brian Roselle]

Some three shot witnesses were more insistent on what they recalled regarding the first shot, and its timing relative to the second shot.

One of those was James Tague who was standing about 20 feet out from the underpass as the limo turned onto Elm.

What do researchers on this forum think about his recollections as reported on Black Op Radio? I'm not sure if an audio file will play so I'll just include the link.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1W170KQsU229-rzyNMPW39vFJ2sxCFYlk/view?usp=sharing

[Charles Collins]

But it is not just him.  It is Betzner, Linda Willis, Occupants of the VP (just completed the turn) and VP Security car (completing the turn - along side TSBD), witnesses along Elm St. (e.g. Billie Clay said she was standing 150 feet west of TSBD entrance:"Just a few seconds after the car in which President John F. Kennedy was riding passed the position where I was standing, I heard a shot." Sue Dickerson "I was standing at the curb on the north side of Elm Street about equal distance between the point where the President was shot and the west end of the Texas School Book Depository building.") Croft (enough time after his z161 photo for him to wind the film and press the shutter again) and Phil Willis (just before his z202 photo).
Definitely after, not before.  I suggest z193 as the time of the first shot.  Ready said he turned to his right upon hearing the first shot - he releases his right hand from the front hand-hold between z198 and z199).
?? - It is well past the intersection when the last Hughes sequence on Houston ends and it happened after that.  Here is the last Hughes frame. 


Again, we don't see camera car 3 in the first Hughes frame after the 1/3 second break.

Again, we don't see camera car 3 in the first Hughes frame after the 1/3 second break.

You are looking at the wrong frame (H614). That frame occurs after a 37-frame, ~2-second stoppage. Look at H631 to see where camera car actually was after the 1/3-second stoppage.

[Charles Collins]

Some three shot witnesses were more insistent on what they recalled regarding the first shot, and its timing relative to the second shot.

One of those was James Tague who was standing about 20 feet out from the underpass as the limo turned onto Elm.

What do researchers on this forum think about his recollections as reported on Black Op Radio? I'm not sure if an audio file will play so I'll just include the link.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1W170KQsU229-rzyNMPW39vFJ2sxCFYlk/view?usp=sharing

Tague’s recollections in that audio certainly suggest an early shot a bit before Z133.