Tippit Debate

[Martin Weidmann]

You ask for "Conclusive Evidence", well here it is.

A number of eyewitnesses saw Oswald empty shells from his revolver. Direct Evidence

Mr. BELIN - What else did you see?
Mr. BENAVIDES - Then I seen the man turn and walk back to the sidewalk and go on the sidewalk and he walked maybe 5 foot and then kind of stalled. He didn't exactly stop. And he threw one shell and must have took five or six more steps and threw the other shell up, and then he kind of stepped up to a pretty good trot going around the corner

Barbara Jeanette Davis: When the police arrived Ishowed [sic] one of them where I saw this man emptying his gun and we found a shell.

Mrs. DAVIS. Well, we saw Oswald. We didn't know it was Oswald at the time. We saw that boy cut across the lawn emptying the shells out of the gun.

Mr. BALL. What did you see him doing?
Mr. GUINYARD. He came through there running and knocking empty shells out of his pistol and he had it up just like this with his hand.

The shells recovered at the scene in evidence are an exclusive match to Oswald's revolver. Forensic Evidence

Mr. EISENBERG. Did you examine the cartridge cases in Exhibit 594 in an attempt to determine whether they had been fired in Exhibit 143, the revolver, to the exclusion of all other revolvers?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I did.
Mr. EISENBERG. Can you tell us your conclusion?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. As a result of my examination, it is my opinion that those four cartridge eases, Commission Exhibit 594, were fired in the revolver, Commission Exhibit 143, to the exclusion of all other weapons.

Officer McDonald took the revolver from Oswald. Physical Evidence

Mr. BALL - Which hand was--was his right hand or his left hand on the pistol?
Mr. McDONALD - His right hand was on the pistol.
Mr. BALL - And which of your hands?
Mr. McDONALD - My left hand, at this point.
Mr. BALL - And had he withdrawn the pistol
Mr. McDONALD - He was drawing it as I put my hand.
Mr. BALL - From his waist?
Mr. McDONALD - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - What happened then?
Mr. McDONALD - Well, whenever I hit him, we both fell into the seats. While we were struggling around there, with this hand on the gun--
Mr. BALL - Your left hand?
Mr. McDONALD - Yes, sir. Somehow I managed to get this hand in the action also.
Mr. BALL - Your right hand?
Mr. McDONALD - Yes, sir. Now, as we fell into the seats, I called out, "I have got him," and Officer T. A. Hutson, he came to the row behind us and grabbed Oswald around the neck. And then Officer C. T. Walker came into the row that we were in and grabbed his left arm. And Officer Ray Hawkins came to the row in front of us and grabbed him from the front.
By the time all three of these officers had got there, I had gotten my right hand on the butt of the pistol and jerked it free.

The revolver in evidence is the same revolver as was sent to Oswald. Physical Evidence Documentary evidence



So we have Direct Evidence.
We have Forensic evidence.
We have Physical Evidence.
We have Documentary Evidence

JohnM

So we have Direct Evidence.
We have Forensic evidence.
We have Physical Evidence.
We have Documentary Evidence

Too bad none of it is actually conclusive. It might have been if you didn't have to make the assumptions you are making.

[John Mytton]

So we have Direct Evidence.
We have Forensic evidence.
We have Physical Evidence.
We have Documentary Evidence

Too bad none of it is actually conclusive. It might have been if you didn't have to make the assumptions you are making.

Yawn!

You debate like a child, I present rock solid corroborated evidence and you say what amounts to "no it isn't".

JohnM

[Martin Weidmann]

Yawn!

You debate like a child, I present rock solid corroborated evidence and you say what amounts to "no it isn't".

JohnM

I present rock solid corroborated evidence and you say what amounts to "no it isn't".

Well, you say it is, so what's the difference?

And I have told you exactly why evidence which you claim is conclusive really isn't.
All you have to do is eliminate all the assumptions which you mistake for evidence and see what you are left with!

Rock solid.... give me a break   

[Bill Brown]

Perhaps you're unaware of witnesses like Jimmy Burt, Bill Smith, Domingo Benavides and L.J. Lewis, none of whom positively identified Oswald.

And none of them were at he line up! Go figure!

You're pretending like it was six out of six who positively identified Oswald

I'm not pretending at all. You were the one who brought up "half a dozen".

The facts are that thirteen witnesses saw the killer shoot and/or flee.  But only nine of the thirteen said the guy was Oswald.
This makes your point completely invalid.

How did those people know that the man they saw "fleeing" was in fact a killer?

I'm not pretending at all. You were the one who brought up "half a dozen".

I brought up no such thing.  You're confused.

How did those people know that the man they saw "fleeing" was in fact a killer?

Whether they knew the guy was a killer or not is irrelevant.  Stupid question.

[Martin Weidmann]

I brought up no such thing.  You're confused.

Whether they knew the guy was a killer or not is irrelevant.  Stupid question.

I brought up no such thing.  You're confused.

Sorry, my bad. I thought I was replying to a quote from John Mytton, as we were having a conversation.

I completely missed that you jumped in, which explains my confusion.

[John Iacoletti]

All I can say is if I was viewing a line-up and no one matched the person who I saw, I wouldn't send an innocent man to his death, but perhaps you feel that a handful of average American's are different?

People in general (not just Americans) are easily manipulated by authority figures.  Look at all the BS you swallow just because a cop said so.

[Zeon Mason]

Mr.I and Martin , I generally with your criticisms about the line up. I was mislead by a photo of fake line up in which the other 3 guys are wearing suits while Oswald. Bill set me straight one so that’s why I sometimes agree with LNs on some details.

But the “officially accepted “ line up photo that maybe Bill or Martin is able to post, still I think is probably not fair.

Maybe a definition of what a fair line up would be is in order. I’m not really sure, but Oswald has a cut over his eye and looks kind of roughed up, then it seems maybe the other 3 guys should appear kind of disheveled in some way also.

And maybe all persons should  the same height and wearing the same clothes not different colors and if Oswald was shouting out then the other 3 guys should also shout /protest in some way.

And is 4 people enough? Or should it have been more and if so how many more?