JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate > JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate
That Is Not Officer Haygood = Conspiracy! Prove Me Wrong Challenge
James Hackerott:
After leaving the RR yard Murray stood on the grassy knoll and photographed the crowd gathered on N Elm, including the area near the parked motorcycle of Clyde Haygood. His helmet is visible in the photo near his bike. Murray also caught the north peristyle wall with an advancing shadow moving southward about 3-4” per minute. Modeling this wall shadow allows an estimation of the time as 12:36.
My original posting on this technique can be found in this forum here.
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,2013.msg54679.html#google_vignette
Charles Collins:
--- Quote from: James Hackerott on March 25, 2024, 12:58:15 AM ---After leaving the RR yard Murray stood on the grassy knoll and photographed the crowd gathered on N Elm, including the area near the parked motorcycle of Clyde Haygood. His helmet is visible in the photo near his bike. Murray also caught the north peristyle wall with an advancing shadow moving southward about 3-4” per minute. Modeling this wall shadow allows an estimation of the time as 12:36.
My original posting on this technique can be found in this forum here.
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,2013.msg54679.html#google_vignette
--- End quote ---
Thanks James, excellent work as usual! A few photos later in Murray’s sequence we can see a time displayed on the clock on top of the TSBD as 12:39. Which further supports the accuracy of your shadow technique.
Mitch Todd:
--- Quote from: Royell Storing on March 24, 2024, 09:18:06 PM --- So once again you have Failed to provide EXACTLY WHERE Haygood ran into a "presumed" railroad detective, and then went straight back to his motorcycle? This is Not surprising as the "No Glove Cop" is Not Officer Haygood. And you need to consider that 5 Minute window he has. Like everyone else, you consistently FAIL to consider the Haygood tick/tock consumed while he questioned 2 eyewitnesses BEFORE making that 12:35 radio transmission from his motorcycle. And then we also have the "No Glove Cop" not wearing a glove on his (R) Hand vs Officer Haygood clearly Wearing BOTH GLOVES in the Cancellare photo. Photo Evidence + Film Evidence + Haygood's WC Testimony +5 Minute Window + DPD Uniform Disparity PROVE this "No Glove Cop" is Not Haygood.
--- End quote ---
So once again you have Failed to provide EXACTLY WHERE Haygood ran into a "presumed" railroad detective, and then went straight back to his motorcycle?
It was never my responsibility to determine where Haygood ran into his presumed railroad detective. The photographic evidence is sparse enough that there are plenty of opportunities for this that are not on film. It is up to you to show that he had to have run into the detective while on the ballustrade. All you are doing is trying to shift the burden of proof.
And you need to consider that 5 Minute window he has.
You have also singularly failed to show that he could not have been able to make it to the west spur and back to his motorcycle in 5 minutes. The window is also 4-6 minutes long, since we cant be certain of when in 12:30 the shots were fired and where in 12:35 Haygood hit the mic button on his radio.
Having failed all of that, all you can do is capitalize the word "PROVE" like it makes a difference.
Royell Storing:
--- Quote from: Mitch Todd on March 25, 2024, 06:25:15 PM ---So once again you have Failed to provide EXACTLY WHERE Haygood ran into a "presumed" railroad detective, and then went straight back to his motorcycle?
It was never my responsibility to determine where Haygood ran into his presumed railroad detective. The photographic evidence is sparse enough that there are plenty of opportunities for this that are not on film. It is up to you to show that he had to have run into the detective while on the ballustrade. All you are doing is trying to shift the burden of proof.
And you need to consider that 5 Minute window he has.
You have also singularly failed to show that he could not have been able to make it to the west spur and back to his motorcycle in 5 minutes. The window is also 4-6 minutes long, since we cant be certain of when in 12:30 the shots were fired and where in 12:35 Haygood hit the mic button on his radio.
Having failed all of that, all you can do is capitalize the word "PROVE" like it makes a difference.
--- End quote ---
I appreciate your attempting to meet my challenge. As I told you, I have a mountain of evidence.
- WC TESTIMONY OF JAMES TAGUE -
Mr TAGUE - "..........After the third shot, I ducked behind the bridge abutment and was there for a second, and as I glanced out, and just as I looked out, the car following the President's car, the one with the Secret Service men was just flying past at that time.
LIEBLER - "Going on Elm St under the Triple Underpass?"
TAGUE - " Right, going on Elm. So I stood there looking around. I looked up--there was a motorcycle policeman, and he had stopped and drawn his weapon and was running up the embankment toward the railroad tracks. A crowd of people, several people were starting to come down into that area where he was running, and the people pointing and excitement up there and so on, and about that time a patrolman who evidently had been stationed under the triple underpass walked up and said "what happened?", and I said "I don't know, something". And we walked up to - by this time the Motorcycle Policeman RETURNED BACK CLOSE to where his motorcycle was, and we walked up there, and there was a man standing there. Seeing that he was very excited, I don't remember his name at this time, I had it on the tip of my tongue very excited saying he was watching the President and it seemed like his head just exploded. This was a COUPLE OR 3 MINUTES AFTER THIS HAPPENED". ...................
Obviously DPD Motorcycle Officer Haygood was BACK at his motorcycle well before making that 12:35 radio transmission from his motorcycle. He had to be in order to listen to the eyewitness stories that mandated his making his Documented 12:35 radio transmission from his motorcycle. Officer Haygood was able to be BACK at his motorcycle this quickly due to his retracing his steps and going BACK over the Triple Underpass, jumping BACK onto the Grassy Knoll, and then going BACK Down the grassy knoll to his motorcycle. That is Not Officer Haygood on the Darnell/Martin films walking in front of the caboose, train cars and then Toward/Down the Elm St Ext. During his WC Testimony, Haygood NEVER mentions doing any of this. Per the WC Testimony of James Tague, Officer Haygood was back at his motorcycle within roughly 3 minutes following the Kill Shot.
This is a Major Discovery! My challenge stands due to being supported by a mountain of Evidence.
Royell Storing:
--- Quote from: Dan O'meara on March 25, 2024, 12:17:01 AM --- Your posted Murray Photo was taken well after Haygood had already returned to his motorcycle at the Elm Curb.
What evidence do you have for this claim?
--- End quote ---
"Pictures Of The Pain" went into Detail regarding the Murray itinerary on 11/22/63. As with many of the witnesses chronicled in this book, their story jumps around/across many and sometimes hundreds of scattered pages. A dedicated "researcher" needs to follow this disjointed story telling to its' complete conclusion. To set the record straight, Murray was initially inside when the Kill Shot was fired. (5 minute Haygood clock begins running). Murray exited the building and then went to his car and retrieved his camera from the trunk. He then changed the film inside that same camera. After this, he then went Directly to Elm St and took photos. Any of the Murray photos posted on this thread would have been snapped after Officer Haygood's 5 minute window had Expired.
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