Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview

[Jack Nessan]

There are clear ramifications to Vicki witnessing Shelley and Lovelady on the first floor within seconds of the assassination and, in between dealing with Jack's nonsense, I've been exploring these ramifications; using physical, film, photographic and testimonial evidence to test whether or not the version of events that are a consequence of Vicki's testimony, are actually feasible.
I've demonstrated that she could have been down on the first floor around 35 seconds after the headshot and that she could've been out the back door before Truly and Baker arrived on the scene.
I also started looking into a whether or not it was feasible for Shelley and Lovelady to have made it to the location on the first floor that Vicki observed both men, somewhere between 35 and 45 seconds after the assassination. Part of the evidence I presented was the testimony of DPD officer Joe Marshall Smith who made his way down the Elm Street extension immediately after the shots were fired and bumped into an 'hysterical' woman who told him about the shots being fired at the President. I argued that this woman was Gloria Calvery, who crossed paths with Smith as she raced back to the TSBD building.
This would lead to the following set of events:
1] The headshot.
2] Gloria runs back up Elm Street towards the TSBD building.
3] She runs into Shelley at the concrete 'spur' where the traffic light is situated.
4] She carries on to the TSBD building and runs into officer Smith.
5] She tells Smith about the shooting and carries on to the front steps followed by Shelley
6] Smith runs along the extension to where Gloria says the shots were coming from
7] At the same time Gloria and Shelley arrive back at the front steps.
8] A distressed Gloria tells Lovelady and others stood on the steps about the shooting.

I posted the pic below as part of the evidence I was presenting and would like to examine the significance of this image.
It is a still from the Darnell footage which shows Baker after he has parked his bike and is making his way towards the TSBD building. In the background is officer Joe Marshall Smith who is running up the Elm Street extension:



Let's say this image is taken 20 seconds after the last shot.
In the list above, this image represents number 6] - Smith running along the extension to where Gloria said the shots were coming from.
It means that before this image was taken the headshot had occurred, Gloria had run back up Elm Street, she had run into Shelley at the 'spur' and had already told Smith about the shooting.
It also means that, if we could see the front steps at this moment, we would see Calvery at the steps telling Lovelady and the others about the shooting. We would see Shelley returning to the steps. We would see Frazier stood at the stop of the steps, overhearing the "hollering" of Gloria as she told everyone about the shooting.
Luckily, we can see the front steps as the footage rolls on. The still below is a close crop from Darnell taken about 4 seconds after the image above. In it we can see Baker, who has just passed Truly, and is about to reach the foot of the front steps:

photo link

Seconds after this image is taken Baker forces his way past people on the steps and enters the front lobby. Truly turns and follows Baker up the steps and into the lobby. Does this image show the moment Gloria tells Lovelady and others about the shooting? Does it show Shelley returning to the steps? Does it show Frazier listening on?
If we look halfway down on the west side of the steps we can see the backs of two women who are facing towards the front entrance. Both are wearing headscarves, one black and one white. The woman in the white headscarf is very distinctive as she is wearing a white dress as well. When we see the actual footage it is clear that they have their arms linked. The woman in white is making her way up the steps but she has to stop because the woman in the black headscarf appears to be talking to a male figure stood just in front of her. The male figure appears to be a step or two above Black Headscarf, and directly facing her. He appears to be white and bald.
If the timings I've discussed are correct, this must be the moment Gloria [Black Headscarf] tells Lovelady [Bald Man] and other people on the steps about the shooting. At the top of the steps, half covered in shadow, is the well attested to figure of Buell Frazier as he listens on to the distressed Gloria.
Bill Shelley was known to be wearing a loose-fitting, baggy black (or darkly coloured) suit. At the bottom of the steps we can see such a figure. In the actual footage we first see this man from behind as he takes a step or two towards the front entrance before he turns to face the direction Baker is approaching from. This must be Shelley as he reaches the steps after following Gloria back from the 'spur'.



Shelley and Lovelady must follow Baker into the front lobby. While he is trying to find out how to get up the building and having his interaction with Truly, Shelley and Lovelady make their way towards the back of the first floor where they are spotted by Adams. Seconds later Truly and Baker arrive. Adams and Styles have already left through the back door and Baker observes two white men (who can only be Shelley and Lovelady) at the back of the first floor.

“Seconds after this image is taken Baker forces his way past people on the steps and enters the front lobby. Truly turns and follows Baker up the steps and into the lobby. Does this image show the moment Gloria tells Lovelady and others about the shooting? Does it show Shelley returning to the steps?” 

Another picture. Another moment of disbelief. Do you see it? The fact that it does not fit your story. 

If Baker then Truly pass Shelley and Lovelady on the steps, how do Shelley and Lovelady encounter the descending Adams and Styles by the first floor elevator before the girls can meet Baker and Truly ascending up the stairs? Shelley and Lovelady are now behind Truly and Baker in the mad dash.

Shelley and Lovelady must follow Baker into the front lobby.

Why? Because without this happening, it is beyond ridiculous that the people who you are surmising in the first place to be Shelley and Lovelady, would even do this.

[Richard Smith]

It's a pity you don't have the brains to assess the evidence yourself.
Your pathetic whining about those researching certain aspects of this case is as meaningless as your 'contribution' in general.
If you had the courage of your own convictions you'd genuinely participate in the debate - analyse and critique.
Instead it's just a cowardly whining from the side-lines and bare-faced lies.
You're an utter disgrace as a 'researcher' and it has been a pleasure making you look like a complete idiot every time you dare to venture onto any threads I'm participating in.
The cowardly way you disappeared from the debate earlier in this thread speaks volumes. Once again, crushed in front of the forum and back under your rock.
You have no contribution to make, so don't bother trying to make any.

Such hostility and rudeness.   Do you have parents who can teach you any manners or is it too late by age 12?  I've asked you a very simple question for which you have constantly responded with rants and rudeness that reflect insecurity.  Why don't you present your arguments and evidence to the DPD if you believe they have validity and that you have "crushed" others who disagree with you?  What do you expect to happen here with your endless insults toward those who disagree with your conclusions?  Do you think that folks who disagree with your pedantic subjective interpretation of events based on imprecise witness recollections and testimony will be persuaded by your insults?  And even if that were possible, what significance would it hold?   If you have any friends, perhaps send them a copy of your post above and ask them for an honest assessment of your behavior.   

[Dan O'meara]

Such hostility and rudeness.   Do you have parents who can teach you any manners or is it too late by age 12?  I've asked you a very simple question for which you have constantly responded with rants and rudeness that reflect insecurity.  Why don't you present your arguments and evidence to the DPD if you believe they have validity and that you have "crushed" others who disagree with you?  What do you expect to happen here with your endless insults toward those who disagree with your conclusions?  Do you think that folks who disagree with your pedantic subjective interpretation of events based on imprecise witness recollections and testimony will be persuaded by your insults?  And even if that were possible, what significance would it hold?   If you have any friends, perhaps send them a copy of your post above and ask them for an honest assessment of your behavior.

Such hostility and rudeness.

If there's anything inaccurate about what I 've posted please point it out and I will correct it.
Not for one second did it occur to me that your suggestion to contact the DPD was in anyway to be taken seriously.
I can't believe how badly I've underestimated how moronic you can be.
The "Lost Interview" is new evidence to me and all I'm doing is examining the ramifications of Vicki Adams witnessing Shelley and Lovelady on the first floor seconds after the assassination.
That is all I'm doing.
For some bizarre reason you felt compelled to attack me for simply examining this aspect of the case, accusing me of posting gibberish and calling me a "loon".
It's none of your f%cking business what I choose to study regarding this case.
If you don't like the arguments I put forward then show a bit of backbone and put a counter argument forward, instead of your moronic rants and lies.
Now back under your rock.

[Dan O'meara]

“Seconds after this image is taken Baker forces his way past people on the steps and enters the front lobby. Truly turns and follows Baker up the steps and into the lobby. Does this image show the moment Gloria tells Lovelady and others about the shooting? Does it show Shelley returning to the steps?” 

Another picture. Another moment of disbelief. Do you see it? The fact that it does not fit your story. 

If Baker then Truly pass Shelley and Lovelady on the steps, how do Shelley and Lovelady encounter the descending Adams and Styles by the first floor elevator before the girls can meet Baker and Truly ascending up the stairs? Shelley and Lovelady are now behind Truly and Baker in the mad dash.

Shelley and Lovelady must follow Baker into the front lobby.

Why? Because without this happening, it is beyond ridiculous that the people who you are surmising in the first place to be Shelley and Lovelady, would even do this.

 
The things you are posting are getting more bizarre.
Out of all the information, evidence and arguments I've put forward, the only thing you can come up with is that you find it impossible to understand how Shelley and Lovelady make their way past Baker in the lobby??
You accept everything else I've posted but this is somehow too much for you??

Adams is a witness to Shelley and Lovelady as she moves across the first floor.
This is something you also believe!
Don't you realise that??
It's just that you think it happened a few minutes later.
But now you're questioning whether Adams saw Shelley and Lovelady at all.
You will do anything or say anything to try and score a point but you constantly end up shooting yourself in the foot.

Do you now disagree that Adams saw Shelley and Lovelady on the first floor?

[Martin Weidmann]

Such hostility and rudeness.

If there's anything inaccurate about what I 've posted please point it out and I will correct it.
Not for one second did it occur to me that your suggestion to contact the DPD was in anyway to be taken seriously.
I can't believe how badly I've underestimated how moronic you can be.
The "Lost Interview" is new evidence to me and all I'm doing is examining the ramifications of Vicki Adams witnessing Shelley and Lovelady on the first floor seconds after the assassination.
That is all I'm doing.
For some bizarre reason you felt compelled to attack me for simply examining this aspect of the case, accusing me of posting gibberish and calling me a "loon".
It's none of your f%cking business what I choose to study regarding this case.
If you don't like the arguments I put forward then show a bit of backbone and put a counter argument forward, instead of your moronic rants and lies.
Now back under your rock.

 

[Martin Weidmann]

The things you are posting are getting more bizarre.
Out of all the information, evidence and arguments I've put forward, the only thing you can come up with is that you find it impossible to understand how Shelley and Lovelady make their way past Baker in the lobby??
You accept everything else I've posted but this is somehow too much for you??

Adams is a witness to Shelley and Lovelady as she moves across the first floor.
This is something you also believe!
Don't you realise that??
It's just that you think it happened a few minutes later.
But now you're questioning whether Adams saw Shelley and Lovelady at all.
You will do anything or say anything to try and score a point but you constantly end up shooting yourself in the foot.

Do you now disagree that Adams saw Shelley and Lovelady on the first floor?

Out of all the information, evidence and arguments I've put forward, the only thing you can come up with is that you find it impossible to understand how Shelley and Lovelady make their way past Baker in the lobby??

Perhaps they never did. I was reading Shelley's testimony and this stood out;

According to Shelley, he and Lovelady ran towards the railroad yard, after their encounter with Gloria Calvary
At some point they looked back and saw Truly and Baker near the front entrance of the TSBD.
They continued on and when they got to railroad tracks next to the TSBD annex, they saw policemen searching cars, so they decided to re-enter the building, through a small door at the west side of the building

Mr. SHELLEY - We walked on down to the first railroad track there on the dead-end street and stood there and watched them searching cars down there in the parking lots for a little while and then we came in through our parking lot at the west end.
Mr. BALL - At the west end?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes; and then in the side door into the shipping room.
Mr. BALL - When you came into the shipping room did you see anybody?
Mr. SHELLEY - I saw Eddie Piper.
Mr. BALL - What was he doing?
Mr. SHELLEY - He was coming back from where he was watching the motorcade in the southwest corner of the shipping room.
Mr. BALL - Of the first floor of the building?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes.

Lovelady basically tells the same story and confirms that he and Shelley entered the building through a little door at west side of the building

Mr. BALL - After you ran to the railroad tracks you came back and went in the back door of the building?
Mr. LOVELADY - Right.
Mr. BALL - Did you go in through the docks, the wide open door or did you go in the ordinary Small door?
Mr. LOVELADY - You know where we park our trucks--that door; we have a little door.
Mr. BALL - That is where you went in, that little door?
Mr. LOVELADY - That's right.
Mr. BALL - That would be the north end of the building?
Mr. LOVELADY - That would be the west end, wouldn't it?

Now this is where it gets interesting, because Eddie Piper told the WC that he was watching the parade on the 1st floor at the second window from the front entrance of the TSBD.
Shortly after hearing the shots he went to the back of the building, where they make coffee and saw Truly (who he called Boss-man) and a policeman.

If you look at the diagram of the 1st floor it's completely possible that the following events were happening at roughly the same time;

After the shots, Piper moves from the Elm Street window to the coffee place.
In order to get there he has to pass by the small door where Shelley and Lovelady said they entered the 1st floor
There is a clear line of sight between the stairs in the back of the 1st floor, passed the coffee place, to see the door where Shelley and Lovelady entered
With all this going on, Shelley sees Piper and Piper sees Truly and Baker running towards the elevators.
In the meantime Adams and Styles arrive on the 1st floor where Adams sees Shelley and Lovelady as they are entering the first floor.

Obviously, the time estimates provided by all individuals involved are all over the place, but as far as the sequence of events goes it is IMO perfectly plausible that all witnesses are in fact telling the truth.

In this scenario, Adams and Styles arrive at the 1st floor just when Shelley and Lovelady enter through the small side door. They see Piper and focus on him, while Piper sees Truly and Baker and focuses on them.
As a result nobody sees Adams and Styles who leave the building through the loading dock just seconds before Truly and Baker get to the elevators.

[Dan O'meara]

Out of all the information, evidence and arguments I've put forward, the only thing you can come up with is that you find it impossible to understand how Shelley and Lovelady make their way past Baker in the lobby??

Perhaps they never did. I was reading Shelley's testimony and this stood out;

According to Shelley, he and Lovelady ran towards the railroad yard, after their encounter with Gloria Calvary
At some point they looked back and saw Truly and Baker near the front entrance of the TSBD.
They continued on and when they got to railroad tracks next to the TSBD annex, they saw policemen searching cars, so they decided to re-enter the building, through a small door at the west side of the building

Mr. SHELLEY - We walked on down to the first railroad track there on the dead-end street and stood there and watched them searching cars down there in the parking lots for a little while and then we came in through our parking lot at the west end.
Mr. BALL - At the west end?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes; and then in the side door into the shipping room.
Mr. BALL - When you came into the shipping room did you see anybody?
Mr. SHELLEY - I saw Eddie Piper.
Mr. BALL - What was he doing?
Mr. SHELLEY - He was coming back from where he was watching the motorcade in the southwest corner of the shipping room.
Mr. BALL - Of the first floor of the building?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes.

Lovelady basically tells the same story and confirms that he and Shelley entered the building through a little door at west side of the building

Mr. BALL - After you ran to the railroad tracks you came back and went in the back door of the building?
Mr. LOVELADY - Right.
Mr. BALL - Did you go in through the docks, the wide open door or did you go in the ordinary Small door?
Mr. LOVELADY - You know where we park our trucks--that door; we have a little door.
Mr. BALL - That is where you went in, that little door?
Mr. LOVELADY - That's right.
Mr. BALL - That would be the north end of the building?
Mr. LOVELADY - That would be the west end, wouldn't it?

Now this is where it gets interesting, because Eddie Piper told the WC that he was watching the parade on the 1st floor at the second window from the front entrance of the TSBD.
Shortly after hearing the shots he went to the back of the building, where they make coffee and saw Truly (who he called Boss-man) and a policeman.

If you look at the diagram of the 1st floor it's completely possible that the following events were happening at roughly the same time;

After the shots, Piper moves from the Elm Street window to the coffee place.
In order to get there he has to pass by the small door where Shelley and Lovelady said they entered the 1st floor
There is a clear line of sight between the stairs in the back of the 1st floor, passed the coffee place, to see the door where Shelley and Lovelady entered
With all this going on, Shelley sees Piper and Piper sees Truly and Baker running towards the elevators.
In the meantime Adams and Styles arrive on the 1st floor where Adams sees Shelley and Lovelady as they are entering the first floor.

Obviously, the time estimates provided by all individuals involved are all over the place, but as far as the sequence of events goes it is IMO perfectly plausible that all witnesses are in fact telling the truth.

In this scenario, Adams and Styles arrive at the 1st floor just when Shelley and Lovelady enter through the small side door. They see Piper and focus on him, while Piper sees Truly and Baker and focuses on them.
As a result nobody sees Adams and Styles who leave the building through the loading dock just seconds before Truly and Baker get to the elevators.

I thought something sort of similar to this until I listened to the "Lost Interview" which is the topic of this thread.
I realised that Vicki was corroborating her WC testimony - that she raced down the stairs within seconds of the last shot, was on the first floor 30 - 60 seconds after the assassination and that she saw Shelley and Lovelady on the first floor when she got there.
As I understand it, in the scenario you are outlining, at least a few minutes would have passed before Adams encounters Shelley and Lovelady on the first floor.
In order for Adams and Styles to make it out of the back door before Truly and Baker arrive they would have to hit the first floor within 40 -50 seconds after the assassination.
There is no other way for the Stroud document to work - in order for Adams and Styles to go down the stairs before Truly and Baker come up the stairs, and for neither pair to see the other, Adams and Styles have to leave almost immediately and run all the way (something Adams constantly asserts).
In Reply#362 I demonstrate that it was perfectly feasible for Adams to be on the first floor 35 - 40 seconds after the last shot. Truly and Baker arrive on the scene seconds later, where Baker reports seeing two white men hanging around in that area. These two men must be Shelley and Lovelady, confirmed by Adams, who witnesses them there at that time (who else could the two white men be?).

That Shelley and Lovelady lie about there movements after the assassination can hardly be denied. The case for this is overwhelming. The clincher is the "3 minute" lie both men tell in their WC testimony.
This is from Reply#401

"On the 20th March 1964, Baker and Truly took part in time trials which established how quickly both men took to get up to the second floor lunchroom after the assassination. The first time was around 90 seconds, the second time 75 seconds.
Five days later both men testify before the WC and talk about the time trials. So the times taken by Truly and Baker to get inside the TSBD building and up to the second floor are firmly established by this point.
On the 7th April the testimonies of Adams, Lovelady and Shelley are taken. Adams goes first, telling the Commission she raced down the stairs to the first floor and was there in 30-60 seconds and saw Lovelady and Shelley there. There is no contradiction between her testimony and the Truly/Baker time trials - the reason she didn't see them and they didn't see her is that she was already out the back door before Truly and Baker got to the elevators.
Then come the testimonies of, first Lovelady, then Shelley, during which both men tell exactly the same lie which completely contradicts the Truly/Baker time trials and the testimony of Adams.
Both men testify to the effect that Truly and Baker were still outside the TSBD building at least three minutes after the assassination. This completely contradicts the time trials. The timings for Baker and Truly entering the TSBD building have already been firmly established. Now both Lovelady and Shelley are more or less testifying that Baker and Truly were lying and that the whole time trial was a sham. And it's not just one of them telling this lie...it is both of them. It is an organised and co-ordinated Lie.
I'm not sure if the Commission was aware of the Darnell footage at the time of the testimonies of Lovelady and Shelley. Film evidence proving the lies of these men.
Unbelievably, the Commission never questions these lies. The lies are allowed to stand, unchallenged.
Even more unbelievably, when it comes to offer it's final version of events on the day of the assassination, the Commission somehow accepts the results of the time trials (contradicting the "3 minute" lie of Shelley and Lovelady), but they also use the testimony of these proven liars to undermine the testimony of Adams!!This is how they come up with their ridiculous claim that it took Adams five minutes to get down to the first floor. A 'conclusion' all Nutters happily swallow down without question."