You were "done" about 25 posts ago when I asked this question:
"And while you're at it - other than the lies of Shelley and Lovelady, what is the key evidence that convinces you Adams did not race down the stairs seconds after the shooting
Maybe you did not know this but your own personal Mini-me, Martin, had his own fantasy timeline complete with an imaginary cop and his personal made-up timelines. Apparently, you did not actually read the testimonies of Harkness, Sawyer, and Barnett. Nor just look back a few pages to what your Mini-me was posting. If it makes sense to you that the girls waited somewhere in the building for 4 or 5 minutes instead of watching the goings on from the window before departing, then believe that.
It makes absolutely no difference to me. What is known is they did not encounter Shelley and Lovelady until about 12:35, encountered the Police officer in the back of the building until 12:36, and returned to the front and entered the building until 12:37. All based on time stamps. Nothing you have posted changes any of the known information. Not the unexplained mad dash of Shelley and Lovelady or the useless no evidence picture have cast any doubt.
Victoria Adams FBI 11/24
“They had not gone far until they were stopped by a police officer, who instructed them to return to the building.
Sandra Styles FBI 3/19
“We then went around to the side of the building where we saw a policeman talking to someone whom I did not recognize. I was told by a policeman to go around to the front of the building and out of that area. I then re-entered the building....
This encounter with the police officer was known to take place at 12:36 based on the testimony of Sgt Harkness as to when the back was sealed off.
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Martin, like you, thinks creating a once upon a time scenario somehow makes the whole made up storyline more believable. It is not an exercise, it is mindless ramblings trying to reinvent the story.
Martin Weidmann's Timeline
For the purpose of this exercise I'll assume that the killer did in fact come down the stairs immediately after the shots. I'll refer to the shooter on the 6th floor as "Oswald"
12.30.00 Last shot
12.30.30 "Oswald" arrives at the stairs on the 6th floor
Adams and Styles arrive at the stairs on the 4th floor. Dorothy Garner sees them go down the stairs
Officer Baker arrives at the front entrance (seen by Lovelady) and meets Truly, after just parking his bike
Shelley and Lovelady are in front of the main entrance of the building. Gloria Calvary tells them the President has been shot.
They first go to the little traffic island in front of the TSBD and then decide to go, down the dead end street in front of the TSBD,
towards the railroad yard
Lovelady and Shelley see Truly and Baker entering the building
Mr. BALL - Then what happened?
Mr. SHELLEY - Gloria Calvary from South-Western Publishing Co. ran back up there crying and said "The President has been shot" and Billy Lovelady and myself took off across the street to that little, old island and we stopped there for a minute.
Mr. BALL - Across the street, you mean directly south?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes, slightly to the right, you know where the light is there?
Mr. BALL - Did you see Truly, Mr. Truly and an officer go into the building?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yeah, we saw them right at the front of the building while we were on the island.
Mr. BALL - While you were out there before you walked to the railroad yards?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - By the time you left the steps had Mr. Truly entered the building?
Mr. LOVELADY - As we left the steps I would say we were at least 15. maybe 25. steps away from the building. I looked back and I saw him and the policeman running into the building.
12:31.00 "Oswald" arrives at the 2nd floor and goes into the lunchroom after decending 4 flights of stairs
Adams and Styles arrive on the first floor, after decending 3 flights of stairs, and leave the building through the loading door
just left of the stairs
Truly and Baker, somewhat delayed by trying to call the east elevator down, pass the elevator block on the first floor and
run towards the stairs, just missing the women
This timeline demonstrates that if "Oswald" and Adams & Styles both arrive at the stairs 30 seconds after the last shot and they descent the stairs at roughly the same speed, they could in theory have been on the stairs at the same time, with "Oswald" arriving on the 2nd floor around the same time Adams & Styles arrived on the 1st floor.
12:31.15 Baker arrives on the 2nd floor (Truly is already climbing the stairs to the 3rd floor) and meets Oswald in the lunchroom
Adams and Styles arrive at the North East side of the loading dock and go down the stairs
12:31.30 Adams and Styles have gone round the most Northern point of the loading dock and start running toward the railroad yard
12.33.00 Adams and Styles encounter a police officer, somewhere near the North Western corner of the TSBD, and are told to
go back to the building. The women walk along side the railway track, west of the TSBD and it's warehouse extension,
towards the parallel road in the front of the building.
Shelley and Lovelady are in that same location, roughly where the parallel road dead ends in a parking lot
Mr. BALL - Shelley and you went down how far?
Mr. LOVELADY - Well, I would say a good 75, between 75 to 100 yards to the first tracks. See how those tracks goes---
Mr. BALL - You went down the dead end on Elm?
Mr. LOVELADY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - And down to the first tracks?
Mr. LOVELADY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - Then you came back. How long did you stay around the railroad tracks?
Mr. LOVELADY - Oh, just a minute, maybe minute and a half.
Mr. BALL - Then what did you do?
Mr. LOVELADY - Came back right through that part where Mr. Campbell, Mr. Truly, and Mr. Shelley park their cars and I came back inside the building.
Mr. BALL - And enter from the rear?
Mr. LOVELADY - Yes, sir; sure did.
Mr. BALL - What did you and Billy Lovelady do?
Mr. SHELLEY - We walked on down to the first railroad track there on the dead-end street and stood there and watched them searching cars down there in the parking lots for a little while and then we came in through our parking lot at the west end.
Mr. BALL - At the west end?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes; and then in the side door into the shipping room.
12.34.00 Adams and Styles arrive at the road that runs parallel to the TSBD, turn left and walk toward the main entrance.
12.35.00 After walking the distance from the warehouse building next to the TSBD, Adams and Styles arrive at the
front entrance of the building. Styles enters the building straight away, but Adams stays behind to talk to some co-workers.
The building is not yet sealed off.
12.36.00 Adams hears a radio report about the shots having been fired from the TSBD building. She enters the TSBD through the front
entrance. She persuades the police officer who sealed of the main entrance to let her in. She takes the stairs to the 2nd floor,
in the hall in the South East corner of the building. She then walks through the office space to the North West corner
(where the 2nd floor lunchroom is) and takes the freight elevator to the 4th floor with two men she believes to be police
officers or secret service.
Shelley and Lovelady enter the building and arrive at the first floor where Lovelady - according to his testimony - sees a girl
Mr. BALL - You came in through the first floor?
Mr. LOVELADY - Right.
Mr. BALL - Who did you see in the first floor?
Mr. LOVELADY - I saw a girl but I wouldn't swear to it it's Vickie.
Shelley only saw Eddie Piper
Mr. BALL - When you came into the shipping room did you see anybody?
Mr. SHELLEY - I saw Eddie Piper.
12.37.00 Sgt Harkness seals off the building at the building
The times are approximations, but the timeline works perfectly and includes all the known information without any witness having to lie.
Martin: “Styles re-entered the TSBD at the front entrance before it was sealed off. If it was sealed of at 12:37, it means that Styles entered the building prior to 12:37.”
It means Styles reentered the building after being told by the officer in the back to return to the front
Martin: “was photographed standing next to Sawyer's car and re-entered the building through the front door before it was locked down. That must have happened between 12:35 and 12:37.”
Unbelievable, Martin just makes up his own crap and gives it his own priority.
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THEN:2020
Martin Weidmann Timeline----12.33.00 Adams and Styles encounter a police officer, somewhere near the North Western corner of the TSBD, and are told to go back to the building. The women walk along side the railway track, west of the TSBD and it's warehouse extension, towards the parallel road in the front of the building.
It is known that the building was sealed off at 12:36, not 12:33. 12:33 is a fantasy time.
NOW: 2024
MW-- “BS. The back of the building wasn't locked down until 12:36. There were no officers stationed behind the building before that. In the interview, Vickie Adams states that when she left the building, she saw an officer standing near Houston street talking to a man in plain clothes, but they were not watching the building and didn't see her.”
MW--"The officer(s) that told Adams and Styles to return to the building was at the west side of the building where Lovelady saw them;”
MW--“When you start with a wrong assumption you will get a wrong answer. In this case the wrong assumption is that the police officer who told Adams to go back in the building was one of the officers that was sealing off the building.
HUH? So what happened to the officer, now according to you. just wandering around and stopping them at the North West corner of the building? Really, an officer telling them to go back into the building is passing the time of day with friendly conversation but apparently not “sealing off the building.” Which Sgt Harkness stated took place at 12:36. The only people this officer is known to have told is Adams and Styles?
Mr. HARKNESS - "Witness says shots came from fifth floor, Texas Book Depository store at Houston and Elm. I have him with me now and we are sealing off the building."
Mr. BELIN - All right, that was at 12:36 p.m.?
Mr. HARKNESS - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Had the building been sealed off at that time?
Mr. HARKNESS - Not to my knowledge. There were several officers around it, but I don't know whether it had been sealed off or not.
Mr. BELIN - In the process of sealing off the building, what did you do?
Mr. HARKNESS - Asked for a squad.
Mr. BELIN - How long did it take you after that to have the back part sealed off?
Mr. HARKNESS - The guard was arriving by the time I got off my motorcycle. There was already additional squads en route.
Mr. BELIN - How soon after 12:36 p.m., would you say the building was sealed off?
Mr. HARKNESS - It was sealed off then because I was back there and two other men.
Mr. BELIN - You are talking about the back part of the building?
Mr. HARKNESS - Yes, sir.
Mr. SAWYER. Just took a quick look around and made sure there was nobody hiding on that floor. I doubt if it took over a minute at the most.
Mr. BELIN. To go up and look around and come down?
Mr. SAWYER. To look around on the floor. How long it took to go up, it couldn't have been over 3 minutes at the most from the time we left, got up and back down
Mr. BELIN. Then that would put it around no sooner than 12:37, if you heard the call at 12:34?
Mr. SAWYER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Then you got down and what did you do?
Mr. SAWYER. I asked the Sergeant to doublecheck the security around the building, and then I took two patrolmen and stationed them at the front door and told them, with instructions not to let anybody in or out.
Mr. BELIN. Now up to the time you did this, had anyone else sealed off the building, that you know of?
Mr. SAWYER. When I arrived, the sergeant told me he had the building sealed off. There were officers all around the building. To the best of my recollection, there was no officer actually stationed on the front door, at the front door. There was some on the sidewalk in front of the front door, and also, as far as I know, had no instructions been issued to anyone to let anybody in or out.
Mr. BELIN. So yours would have been the first instructions to stop traffic from coming in and out of the front door, am I correct in that?
Mr. SAWYER. Just took a quick look around and made sure there was nobody hiding on that floor. I doubt if it took over a minute at the most.
Mr. BELIN. To go up and look around and come down?
Mr. SAWYER. To look around on the floor. How long it took to go up, it couldn't have been over 3 minutes at the most from the time we left, got up and back down
Mr. BELIN. Then that would put it around no sooner than 12:37, if you heard the call at 12:34?
Mr. SAWYER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Then you got down and what did you do?
Mr. SAWYER. I asked the Sergeant to doublecheck the security around the building, and then I took two patrolmen and stationed them at the front door and told them, with instructions not to let anybody in or out.
Mr. BELIN. Now up to the time you did this, had anyone else sealed off the building, that you know of?
Mr. SAWYER. When I arrived, the sergeant told me he had the building sealed off. There were officers all around the building. To the best of my recollection, there was no officer actually stationed on the front door, at the front door. There was some on the sidewalk in front of the front door, and also, as far as I know, had no instructions been issued to anyone to let anybody in or out.
Mr. BELIN. So yours would have been the first instructions to stop traffic from coming in and out of the front door, am I correct in that?
Officer Barnett is more of the same look it up for yourself for once.
You need to own up to your Lie, Jack.
You can't be taken seriously otherwise.
Your conversation with Martin has absolutely nothing to do with me, with the evidence I've presented or with the arguments I am making.
Introducing your discussion with Martin stinks of desperation.
There is not a single statement by Harkness, Sawyer or Barnett that refutes Adams racing down the stairs seconds after the assassination.
Not a single one.
I'm more familiar with this testimony than you will ever be and there is not a single statement made by any of them that has anything to do with how quickly Adams left the fourth floor.
That is why you have never provided such a statement. It's why you have to lie about it.
If it makes sense to you that the girls waited somewhere in the building for 4 or 5 minutes instead of watching the goings on from the window before departing, then believe that.
Are you having a bit of a senior moment Jack?
Have you forgotten it's
you who is saying the girls were hanging around for 4 or 5 minutes, not me!
I'm saying they were out the back door in less than a minute.
Do you remember Jack?
Do you need a nap?
Victoria Adams FBI 11/24
“They had not gone far until they were stopped by a police officer, who instructed them to return to the building.
Sandra Styles FBI 3/19
“We then went around to the side of the building where we saw a policeman talking to someone whom I did not recognize. I was told by a policeman to go around to the front of the building and out of that area. I then re-entered the building....
This encounter with the police officer was known to take place at 12:36 based on the testimony of Sgt Harkness as to when the back was sealed off.This is the only thing you've written that comes even close to providing an argument.
When you say the encounter with this officer was known to have taken "place at 12:36 based on the testimony of Sgt Harkness", is this just another of your lies? Or is it just another senior moment? Or is it something you've just made up because it suits you?
As for Barnett, far from supporting your argument, he totally undermines it. After the shots have been fired he makes his way to the back of the building where he sees officers in the railroad yard and "officers down here watching this back door". Why you think there wasn't an officer at that location until 12:36pm is totally baffling. Mind you, a lot of what you think is totally baffling.
And as for your logic that this officer is something to do with the lock down of the building....I don't think "logic" is the right word to use. The point of the lock down is to stop people from entering or leaving the building. Yet here we have an officer who confronts Adams and Styles outside and tells them to get back inside the building!! It's the very opposite of what the lock down is about!
Only you know what you're thinking trying to make this officer part of the lock down. It's another senior moment as far as I'm concerned.
Other than the lies of Shelley and Lovelady you do not have a single scrap of evidence that has Adams and Styles waiting for up to four minutes before racing down to the first floor.
Not a single scrap.
It's disappointing that you are so willing to lie about this.
