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Author Topic: Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview  (Read 37366 times)

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview
« Reply #112 on: January 04, 2024, 11:12:32 PM »
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WOW, what a plan, commit the murder of the century and then without the foggiest notion of who was going to be there, would decide to conceal himself like a child playing hide and seek and then suddenly jump out and attempt to blend in, all the while hoping his disguised clothing would be appropriate? Again, WOW, what a plan and this time with the foresight of Nostradamus!

Whereas anything which is much more practical involving Oswald's escape is met with a plethora of excuses and your "open mind" becomes a solid brick wall, don't you think that this deranged aversion of Oswald's guilt is seen as slightly psychotic?

JohnM

So, you are indeed so naive that you don't understand the concept of hiding in plain sight.

Whereas anything which is much more practical involving Oswald's escape is met with a plethora of excuses and your "open mind" becomes a solid brick wall,

No. Show me the conclusive proof that Oswald was on the 6th floor at 12:30 and came down the stairs within 75 seconds of the last, and I'll happily will accept it.

don't you think that this deranged aversion of Oswald's guilt is seen as slightly psychotic?

I don't have a deranged aversion of Oswald's guilt. As soon as you provide actual proof of his guilt, I'll gladly accept it. So, what's stopping you to provide that conclusive evidence?
« Last Edit: January 04, 2024, 11:21:56 PM by Martin Weidmann »

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Re: Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview
« Reply #112 on: January 04, 2024, 11:12:32 PM »


Offline John Mytton

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Re: Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview
« Reply #113 on: January 05, 2024, 12:13:34 AM »
So, you are indeed so naive that you don't understand the concept of hiding in plain sight.

Huh? The only naivety on display is coming both barrels from you, the concept of hiding in plain sight" only works when the applicable rules are applied, it's all good to speculate with the appropriate knowledge in hindsight but at the time any potential assassin could only guess.

1. If only Secret Service rushed to the 6th floor and the assassin was wearing a Police Uniform he would not fit in.
2. If the Police rushed to the 6th floor then a suited gentleman would not fit in.
3. If the FBI rushed to the 6th floor and the Assassin flashed his Secret Service card he would not fit in.

So, as can be seen, some guy hiding amongst boxes and playing Jack in the Box as he suddenly exposes himself, in itself would raise serious questions and then on top of that, this man has to have the appropriate disguise and then has to have the correct identification, what you simply write of as a simple act of "hiding in plain sight" is in fact far more complicated than you can possibly understand.

Whereas we know that Oswald was in the Sniper's Nest because Brennan saw him and gave a close description and 15 minutes later this description was broadcast on the Police radio and Oswald's fresh prints were discovered in the Sniper's Nest and his rifle carry bag with his prints were discovered in the Sniper's Nest and Oswald's rifle was discovered on the same floor and his prints were on the rifle and he has no alibi and 90 seconds later he decides to get a coke of all things and he was seen hurriedly moving away from Officer Baker in the vestibule in the direction away from the stairs and then Oswald decides to immediately leave in flight and, gets on and off a bus, and gets in a cab and stops way past his rooming house and gets his gun and kills a cop and discards his jacket and hides in a theatre and tries to kill more cops when arrested and while being interrogated, lies about owning the rifle and lies about living at Neely street and lies about the backyard photo and lies about the story he tells Frazier and lies about putting the long package on the back seat of Frazier's car, etc, etc, etc, etc etc!

And this is the man you want to defend? ???

Btw when in your mind, you attempt to refute each piece of this rock solid evidence with unconnected speculation, try and think of the complications of manufacturing what turned out to be a totally connected Mountain of Evidence!
Now I know that you have proven that you are beyond reason, but I simply post this for the reader who might not know what was actually involved in Oswald's guilt.

JohnM
« Last Edit: January 05, 2024, 01:20:19 AM by John Mytton »

Offline John Mytton

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Re: Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview
« Reply #114 on: January 05, 2024, 04:16:08 AM »
Several pages back I posted the plan view of the 4th floor to show Martin that this floor had 2 elevators, and I wondered why the girls didn't use the obviously much closer passenger elevator. Anyway I was having a look at the Ed Forum's thread on this subject and DVP posted this recollection from Styles in 2008.

"We made an attempt to take the front-of-building elevator downstairs. For some reason, however, this elevator—which, unlike the rear elevator, went only as high as the fourth floor—did not come when we called it. It was only after trying to call the elevator that we thought of going towards the rear stairs. And even then we did not proceed very quickly — we were wearing high-heel shoes!" -- S. Styles; 2008



It's worth noting that this elevator was working later on.

Mr. BELIN. Now you took an elevator up, is that correct?
Mr. SAWYER. That's right.
Mr. BELIN. The route that you took to the elevator, you went to the front door?
Mr. SAWYER. Right.
Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?
Mr. SAWYER. We got into the elevator. We run into this man.
Mr. BELIN. Well, when you say you got into the elevator, where was the elevator as you walked in the front door?
Mr. SAWYER. It was to the right.
Mr. BELIN. To the right?
Mr. SAWYER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Was it a freight elevator or a passenger elevator?
Mr. SAWYER. The best of my recollection, it was a passenger elevator.


But this elevator wasn't working for Adams when she re-entered the building, so she took the front stairs which went as far as the 2nd floor, she listened to some people for a while, then went to the rear elevator and it wasn't working so she took the rear stairs and ran up to the 4th floor. This girl surely did do a lot of running and even with 3 inch heels, what a Gal!

Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do ?
Miss ADAMS - Following that, I pushed the button for the passenger elevator, but the power had been cut off on the elevator, so I took the stairs to the second floor.
Mr. BELIN - You then went all the way back to the northwest corner of the building and took the same set of stairs you had previously taken to come down, or did you take the stairs by the passenger elevator?
Miss ADAMS - By the passenger elevator.
Mr. BELIN - Do those stairs go above floor 2?
Miss ADAMS - No, sir; they didn't.
Mr. BELIN - What did you do when you got to the second floor?
Miss ADAMS - I went into the Texas School Book Depository office and just listened for a few minutes to the people that were congregating there, and decided there wasn't anything interesting going on, and went out and walked around the hall to the freight elevator meaning the one on the northwest corner.
Mr. BELIN - Would it have been the west or the east? The one nearest the stairs or the other one?
Miss ADAMS - Yes; the one nearest the stairs.
Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do?
Miss ADAMS - I went into the elevator which was stopped on the second floor, with two men who were dressed in suit and hats, and I assumed they were plainclothesmen.
Mr. BELIN - What did you do then?
Miss ADAMS - I tried to get the elevator to go to the fourth floor, but it wasn't operating, so the gentlemen lifted the elevator gate and we went out and ran up the stairs to the fourth floor.


JohnM
« Last Edit: January 05, 2024, 04:45:46 AM by John Mytton »

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Re: Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview
« Reply #114 on: January 05, 2024, 04:16:08 AM »


Offline Zeon Mason

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Re: Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview
« Reply #115 on: January 05, 2024, 05:06:08 AM »
In that recorded interview, Adams stated she was standing at the OPEN window of the 4th floor office at the time of the shooting.

Dillard photo taken about 10 secs post shots of TSBD shows there is no one at the open window on the 4th floor office.

Hence, a good indication that Adams and Stiles  did in fact leave from that office window  within 10 sec post shots.

If they went  from that open window to the passenger elevator they  had to have traveled  approx 50 ft to get to the east side passenger elevator ,   which adds additional time required to reach the rear staircase.

If they left the window ” immediately “ which may be as early as 5 sec post shots, and walked at heel wearing pace of 5 ft/ sec then it’s 10 secs to reach passenger elevator , 5 secs to find the elevator was not working  , then the  distance from passenger elevator to the rear stairs is approx 100 ft so another 20secs to trek that distance = approx 40 sec post shots when A&S started down the rear stairs.

At a stair descending pace of probably not faster than 12 secs per floor, it would have taken them 24 more secs to be starting down the 2nd floor staircase but when they reached the 1st floor not having to cross another 20 ft of floor landing, cuts off about 5 secs so that took only another 7 secs , therefore the total time required to reach 1st floor right beside the open rollup door besides the staircase = approx 70 secs.

This means that it must have taken Baker and Truly  at least approx 70 secs before they both got thru The counter top desk area by Trulys  office before they then started their diagonal trek towards the rear elevators, so that their LOS to the rear stairs did not begin earlier than when Adams and Stiles reach the 1st floor.

It would then  take B/T 5 secs to get to the rear elevators, 5 secs for Truly to shout up to send elevators down, and about 10 secs to climb up the 18 step dog leg staircase.

Therefore the revised approx time that Truly arrived  to the 2nd floor landing is right at 90 secs post shots.

Offline John Mytton

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Re: Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview
« Reply #116 on: January 05, 2024, 06:10:15 AM »
In that recorded interview, Adams stated she was standing at the OPEN window of the 4th floor office at the time of the shooting.

Dillard photo taken about 10 secs post shots of TSBD shows there is no one at the open window on the 4th floor office.

Hence, a good indication that Adams and Stiles  did in fact leave from that office window  within 10 sec post shots.

If they went  from that open window to the passenger elevator they  had to have traveled  approx 50 ft to get to the east side passenger elevator ,   which adds additional time required to reach the rear staircase.

If they left the window ” immediately “ which may be as early as 5 sec post shots, and walked at heel wearing pace of 5 ft/ sec then it’s 10 secs to reach passenger elevator , 5 secs to find the elevator was not working  , then the  distance from passenger elevator to the rear stairs is approx 100 ft so another 20secs to trek that distance = approx 40 sec post shots when A&S started down the rear stairs.

At a stair descending pace of probably not faster than 12 secs per floor, it would have taken them 24 more secs to be starting down the 2nd floor staircase but when they reached the 1st floor not having to cross another 20 ft of floor landing, cuts off about 5 secs so that took only another 7 secs , therefore the total time required to reach 1st floor right beside the open rollup door besides the staircase = approx 70 secs.

This means that it must have taken Baker and Truly  at least approx 70 secs before they both got thru The counter top desk area by Trulys  office before they then started their diagonal trek towards the rear elevators, so that their LOS to the rear stairs did not begin earlier than when Adams and Stiles reach the 1st floor.

It would then  take B/T 5 secs to get to the rear elevators, 5 secs for Truly to shout up to send elevators down, and about 10 secs to climb up the 18 step dog leg staircase.

Therefore the revised approx time that Truly arrived  to the 2nd floor landing is right at 90 secs post shots.

Adams says she was at the 6th window across which is open in Dillard, but Adams was also with Garner and Elsie Dorman who was definitely at that window filming the Limo at the top end of Houston and neither woman can be seen? Also Garner says Adams and Styles just disappeared without her knowing which suggests to me that those two women were behind her? It is possible that Adams, Styles and Garner were already gone but where is Dorman who we definitely know was at that window filming the President?
Oswald was also gone from the Sniper's nest window and the angled sniper's rifle rest box is clearly visible and the box directly behind the rifle rest box had Oswald's fresh prints on top which were oriented down Elm Street.



The 8mm films were synchronized in this video which gives some idea of the time that Dorman was confirmed to be in the window.


JohnM

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Re: Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview
« Reply #116 on: January 05, 2024, 06:10:15 AM »


Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview
« Reply #117 on: January 05, 2024, 11:03:45 AM »
Huh? The only naivety on display is coming both barrels from you, the concept of hiding in plain sight" only works when the applicable rules are applied, it's all good to speculate with the appropriate knowledge in hindsight but at the time any potential assassin could only guess.

1. If only Secret Service rushed to the 6th floor and the assassin was wearing a Police Uniform he would not fit in.
2. If the Police rushed to the 6th floor then a suited gentleman would not fit in.
3. If the FBI rushed to the 6th floor and the Assassin flashed his Secret Service card he would not fit in.

So, as can be seen, some guy hiding amongst boxes and playing Jack in the Box as he suddenly exposes himself, in itself would raise serious questions and then on top of that, this man has to have the appropriate disguise and then has to have the correct identification, what you simply write of as a simple act of "hiding in plain sight" is in fact far more complicated than you can possibly understand.

Whereas we know that Oswald was in the Sniper's Nest because Brennan saw him and gave a close description and 15 minutes later this description was broadcast on the Police radio and Oswald's fresh prints were discovered in the Sniper's Nest and his rifle carry bag with his prints were discovered in the Sniper's Nest and Oswald's rifle was discovered on the same floor and his prints were on the rifle and he has no alibi and 90 seconds later he decides to get a coke of all things and he was seen hurriedly moving away from Officer Baker in the vestibule in the direction away from the stairs and then Oswald decides to immediately leave in flight and, gets on and off a bus, and gets in a cab and stops way past his rooming house and gets his gun and kills a cop and discards his jacket and hides in a theatre and tries to kill more cops when arrested and while being interrogated, lies about owning the rifle and lies about living at Neely street and lies about the backyard photo and lies about the story he tells Frazier and lies about putting the long package on the back seat of Frazier's car, etc, etc, etc, etc etc!

And this is the man you want to defend? ???

Btw when in your mind, you attempt to refute each piece of this rock solid evidence with unconnected speculation, try and think of the complications of manufacturing what turned out to be a totally connected Mountain of Evidence!
Now I know that you have proven that you are beyond reason, but I simply post this for the reader who might not know what was actually involved in Oswald's guilt.

JohnM

Huh? The only naivety on display is coming both barrels from you, the concept of hiding in plain sight" only works when the applicable rules are applied, it's all good to speculate with the appropriate knowledge in hindsight but at the time any potential assassin could only guess.

1. If only Secret Service rushed to the 6th floor and the assassin was wearing a Police Uniform he would not fit in.
2. If the Police rushed to the 6th floor then a suited gentleman would not fit in.
3. If the FBI rushed to the 6th floor and the Assassin flashed his Secret Service card he would not fit in.

So, as can be seen, some guy hiding amongst boxes and playing Jack in the Box as he suddenly exposes himself, in itself would raise serious questions and then on top of that, this man has to have the appropriate disguise and then has to have the correct identification, what you simply write of as a simple act of "hiding in plain sight" is in fact far more complicated than you can possibly understand.


Utter BS from the fool who thinks he never fails.

Would hiding in plain sight be risky? Sure, there would always be a certain amount of risk involved. But the same goes for running down the stairs where at any time police officers could come up!

Bonnie Ray Williams was on the 6th floor, near the sniper's nest and was unable to see anybody in it. If the killer had carried an official law enforcement badge and was hidden by some boxes on the other side of the 6th floor, he could have shown himself as soon as the first couple of officers had arrived on the 6th floor. The officers coming up from behind would have been none the wiser and believe had just had come up before them and those already on the floor, if they even noticed him, would have accepted the badge and carried on searching the floor. For crying out loud, for Baker was Truly saying that Oswald was an employee enough to let him go.

Whereas we know that Oswald was in the Sniper's Nest because Brennan saw him and gave a close description and 15 minutes later this description was broadcast on the Police radio and Oswald's fresh prints were discovered in the Sniper's Nest and his rifle carry bag with his prints were discovered in the Sniper's Nest and Oswald's rifle was discovered on the same floor and his prints were on the rifle and he has no alibi and 90 seconds later he decides to get a coke of all things and he was seen hurriedly moving away from Officer Baker in the vestibule in the direction away from the stairs and then Oswald decides to immediately leave in flight and, gets on and off a bus, and gets in a cab and stops way past his rooming house and gets his gun and kills a cop and discards his jacket and hides in a theatre and tries to kill more cops when arrested and while being interrogated, lies about owning the rifle and lies about living at Neely street and lies about the backyard photo and lies about the story he tells Frazier and lies about putting the long package on the back seat of Frazier's car, etc, etc, etc, etc etc!

Wow, sounds convincing, if all of it was actually true. The problem is that there simply isn't conclusive proof for most of the claims that are being made here. For instance, it wasn't Brennan's description that was broadcast on the police radio, and Brennan originally couldn't identify Oswald in the line up. That only happened after some "persuasion". The assumption that the magical bag that first wasn't and then suddenly was found in the sniper's nest and never photographed in situ was ever used to carry the rifle is nothing more than indeed an assumption... etc,etc,etc,etc, etc!

Oh yeah, one more thing; if Oswald wanted to flee (as you suggest) he could have simply left the stairs on the 2nd floor and kept on walking through the office space and out the front door. He wouldn't have to hang around in the lunchroom.

And this is the man you want to defend? ???

No, I don't want to defend Oswald. I have no horse in this race at all and have never ever claimed he was innocent or guilty for that matter. But a fanatical zealot like you will never see it that way. For you, anybody who doesn't instantly accept the BS that you are trying to sell must be a defender of Oswald. If he is guilty then so be it, but his guilt should be demonstrated by conclusive evidence and this so-called "mountain of evidence" of yours is in reality a minor molehill of speculation and biased conjecture. Make enough assumptions and you can "prove" anybody is guilty of anything!

The desperate way in which you try to defend and justify all the massive problems there are with the evidence, like ignoring witnesses and calling people like Adams and Garner liars, as if it is all irrelevant to the outcome of the investigation, tells me beyond reasonable doubt that what we are told simply isn't what actually happened. It's the antics of people like you which creates doubt about the verasity of the evidence!

« Last Edit: January 05, 2024, 03:19:29 PM by Martin Weidmann »

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview
« Reply #118 on: January 05, 2024, 12:13:48 PM »
Several pages back I posted the plan view of the 4th floor to show Martin that this floor had 2 elevators, and I wondered why the girls didn't use the obviously much closer passenger elevator. Anyway I was having a look at the Ed Forum's thread on this subject and DVP posted this recollection from Styles in 2008.

"We made an attempt to take the front-of-building elevator downstairs. For some reason, however, this elevator—which, unlike the rear elevator, went only as high as the fourth floor—did not come when we called it. It was only after trying to call the elevator that we thought of going towards the rear stairs. And even then we did not proceed very quickly — we were wearing high-heel shoes!" -- S. Styles; 2008



It's worth noting that this elevator was working later on.

Mr. BELIN. Now you took an elevator up, is that correct?
Mr. SAWYER. That's right.
Mr. BELIN. The route that you took to the elevator, you went to the front door?
Mr. SAWYER. Right.
Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?
Mr. SAWYER. We got into the elevator. We run into this man.
Mr. BELIN. Well, when you say you got into the elevator, where was the elevator as you walked in the front door?
Mr. SAWYER. It was to the right.
Mr. BELIN. To the right?
Mr. SAWYER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Was it a freight elevator or a passenger elevator?
Mr. SAWYER. The best of my recollection, it was a passenger elevator.


But this elevator wasn't working for Adams when she re-entered the building, so she took the front stairs which went as far as the 2nd floor, she listened to some people for a while, then went to the rear elevator and it wasn't working so she took the rear stairs and ran up to the 4th floor. This girl surely did do a lot of running and even with 3 inch heels, what a Gal!

Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do ?
Miss ADAMS - Following that, I pushed the button for the passenger elevator, but the power had been cut off on the elevator, so I took the stairs to the second floor.
Mr. BELIN - You then went all the way back to the northwest corner of the building and took the same set of stairs you had previously taken to come down, or did you take the stairs by the passenger elevator?
Miss ADAMS - By the passenger elevator.
Mr. BELIN - Do those stairs go above floor 2?
Miss ADAMS - No, sir; they didn't.
Mr. BELIN - What did you do when you got to the second floor?
Miss ADAMS - I went into the Texas School Book Depository office and just listened for a few minutes to the people that were congregating there, and decided there wasn't anything interesting going on, and went out and walked around the hall to the freight elevator meaning the one on the northwest corner.
Mr. BELIN - Would it have been the west or the east? The one nearest the stairs or the other one?
Miss ADAMS - Yes; the one nearest the stairs.
Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do?
Miss ADAMS - I went into the elevator which was stopped on the second floor, with two men who were dressed in suit and hats, and I assumed they were plainclothesmen.
Mr. BELIN - What did you do then?
Miss ADAMS - I tried to get the elevator to go to the fourth floor, but it wasn't operating, so the gentlemen lifted the elevator gate and we went out and ran up the stairs to the fourth floor.


JohnM


"We made an attempt to take the front-of-building elevator downstairs. For some reason, however, this elevator—which, unlike the rear elevator, went only as high as the fourth floor—did not come when we called it. It was only after trying to call the elevator that we thought of going towards the rear stairs. And even then we did not proceed very quickly — we were wearing high-heel shoes!" -- S. Styles; 2008



Interesting! I suppose that if Belin had decided to time her trek to the first floor this would have been documented. Barry Ernest’s book “The Girl on the Stairs” is copyrighted 2013. This should have come up in all his dealings with Victoria Adams. Deception by omission is one of the tricks used by CT authors. This makes me wonder about Barry.

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Re: Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview
« Reply #118 on: January 05, 2024, 12:13:48 PM »


Offline Michael Capasse

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Re: Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview
« Reply #119 on: January 05, 2024, 02:00:09 PM »
Cops did not rush to the 6th

Baker hardly looked at the 6th floor from the elevator on the way down. DPD Luke Mooney was the first up in
the nest, but not until about 1pm - shells (in plain sight) were not reported until 42 minutes after the shooting.
And Jack Dougherty (on 5th floor) didn't say what time this happened and as usual,  the attorney failed to asked:

Mr. BALL - Did you hear Mr. Truly yell anything up the elevator shaft?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - I didn't hear anybody yell.

Mr. BALL - Or, did you see Mr. Truly?

Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, when the FBI men---I imagine it was who it was---he showed me his credentials,
but he asked me who the manager was, and I told him, "Mr. Truly." He told me to go find him.
Well, I didn't know where he was so I started from the first floor and Just started looking for him,
and by the time I got to the sixth floor, they had found a gun and shells.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2024, 02:16:55 PM by Michael Capasse »