When Was JBC Hit?

[Andrew Mason]

There is no way the impact momentum lifted the right shoulder.

 
Oh boy, you really need to read the posts you are responding to.
Of course there is no way that a downward impact to the right side of JBC's torso will cause his right shoulder to lift.
The Z-film shows his LEFT SHOULDER lifting.

Except that the right shoulder lifts and moves forward between z222 and z224:



Here is a longer clip:


So if you think he was hit by a bullet in the right armpit, why would the right shoulder lift and turn forward?  After that the left shoulder lifts but there is no reason to believe it is anything other than a voluntary movement as he prepares to turn around. 

Second, the ratio of resulting body speed to incoming bullet speed is in inverse proportion to the ratio of their masses. A human male trunk is about 55% of total body mass or about 55 kg for a 100 kg person. So the incoming 10g (.01kg) bullet at 450 m/s (1500 fps) imparts 4.5 kg m/s of momentum to the torso and the torso recoils at a speed of 4.5/55 =.08 m/s or 8 cm/s. That works out to 4.5 mm per frame. You are not going to see sudden motion of the body in one frame or even over 2 or 3 frames


Pure baloney.
The physical collision of two solids transfers momentum instantaneously.

Yes, of course. The momentum is transferred from the bullet to the body while it passes thorugh the chest. That occurs almost "instantaneously" (about 1/1000th of a second to pass through JBC's torso).

The momentum transferred is the bullet mass x the change in velocity. But since the bullet also must have struck the right wrist with a speed of about 1000 fps in order to shatter the radius, the loss of speed in the torso is only about 500 fps or about 150 m/s.  So it would be about 3 mm/second of movement.  How far do you think that can move the body in 1/18th of a second? Answer: 3/18th of a mm.  Do you think you can see that in the zfilm?

The movement of the shoulders is much greater than 3/18ths of a millimetre per frame.  What this means is that the movement seen between z222 and z228 is not from a bullet but is a voluntary movement. 

[Dan O'meara]

Except that the right shoulder lifts and moves forward between z222 and z224:



Here is a longer clip:


So if you think he was hit by a bullet in the right armpit, why would the right shoulder lift and turn forward?  After that the left shoulder lifts but there is no reason to believe it is anything other than a voluntary movement as he prepares to turn around. 
Yes, of course. The momentum is transferred from the bullet to the body while it passes thorugh the chest. That occurs almost "instantaneously" (about 1/1000th of a second to pass through JBC's torso).

The momentum transferred is the bullet mass x the change in velocity. But since the bullet also must have struck the right wrist with a speed of about 1000 fps in order to shatter the radius, the loss of speed in the torso is only about 500 fps or about 150 m/s.  So it would be about 3 mm/second of movement.  How far do you think that can move the body in 1/18th of a second? Answer: 3/18th of a mm.  Do you think you can see that in the zfilm?

The movement of the shoulders is much greater than 3/18ths of a millimetre per frame.  What this means is that the movement seen between z222 and z228 is not from a bullet but is a voluntary movement.

 
Whatever you need, buddy.



The difference between these two images is about 0.70 seconds.

[Steve M. Galbraith]

Except that the right shoulder lifts and moves forward between z222 and z224:



Here is a longer clip:


So if you think he was hit by a bullet in the right armpit, why would the right shoulder lift and turn forward?  After that the left shoulder lifts but there is no reason to believe it is anything other than a voluntary movement as he prepares to turn around. 
Yes, of course. The momentum is transferred from the bullet to the body while it passes thorugh the chest. That occurs almost "instantaneously" (about 1/1000th of a second to pass through JBC's torso).

The momentum transferred is the bullet mass x the change in velocity. But since the bullet also must have struck the right wrist with a speed of about 1000 fps in order to shatter the radius, the loss of speed in the torso is only about 500 fps or about 150 m/s.  So it would be about 3 mm/second of movement.  How far do you think that can move the body in 1/18th of a second? Answer: 3/18th of a mm.  Do you think you can see that in the zfilm?

The movement of the shoulders is much greater than 3/18ths of a millimetre per frame.  What this means is that the movement seen between z222 and z228 is not from a bullet but is a voluntary movement.

Andrew: What caused his right shoulder to move while his left remained, to me, still? To me (confirmation bias/motivated reasoning and all that) his right shoulder goes downward first and then the left follows. They both then "shrug" up.

He specifically said that it felt like a "balled up fist" that first hit him. No pain at that time. Isn't that what we see here?, i.e., a rightward down motion first. Do you not see that?

[Andrew Mason]

The difference between these two images is about 0.70 seconds.

Which is more than enough time for a voluntary action as he prepares to turn around to check on JFK, as he said he did after the first shot.  No need to assume he was hallucinating when he said he was not hit in the back on the first shot.  No need to assume that JFK assumed the position seen in z224 and z225:

between z222 and z224. 

[Andrew Mason]

Andrew: What caused his right shoulder to move while his left remained, to me, still? To me (confirmation bias/motivated reasoning and all that) his right shoulder goes downward first and then the left follows. They both then "shrug" up.

According to the evidence this was the first shot which did not strike JBC in the right armpit.  JBC said that he reacted to the first shot by turning around to look at JFK, realizing that he had just heard a rifle shot and feared an assassination was occurring.  Nellie said that JFK reacted like we see him reacting after z224 BEFORE the second shot.   So, according to the evidence, his right shoulder moves because he has to lean forward a bit and lift his right arm a bit so he can turn around to the right, which he does in the ensuing two seconds.

He specifically said that it felt like a "balled up fist" that first hit him. No pain at that time. Isn't that what we see here?

No. Not according to the evidence. According to the evidence this was the first shot.  He was hit like that on the second shot.

[Zeon Mason]

What about JC s sudden snatching the hat up in the air at about Z230?

Doesn’t that indicate something more than just JC hearing a shot and then trying to turn around?

Can Andrew point out anything in the Z270-ish range of frames indicating
some kind of impact of a bullet hitting JC?

[Andrew Mason]

Can Andrew point out anything in the Z270-ish range of frames indicating
some kind of impact of a bullet hitting JC?

The sudden movement of JBC that begins at z271-272 and continues through z278 before he falls back. It is subtle but before he falls back onto Nellie he moves toward the front of the car without moving any part of his body to initiate this motion.

There is also a slight change in his hand position and the hat he is holding between z271 and z272.

There is also the odd lifting of JFK’s hair on the right side of his head that George Hickey observed at the time of the second shot (z273-277).

Finally, there is Wm Greer’s first turn around at around z280 which he said he did immediately after -“almost simultaneous” with- the second shot.

[Jerry Organ]

The sudden movement of JBC that begins at z271-272 and continues through z278 before he falls back. It is subtle but before he falls back onto Nellie he moves toward the front of the car without moving any part of his body to initiate this motion.

There is also a slight change in his hand position and the hat he is holding between z271 and z272.

Mason's sailing-forward bullet impact on the Guv.

Mason's "sailing forward" cherry-pick GIF, with zoom-out. It's centered on the President which accentuates the "forward" movement of Connally, as well as the near-side of the parade bar, which is seen "moving" forward.

Connally actually pivots in his seat towards Nellie and away from the camera. The angle of Connally's shirt collar, for example, becomes flatter as his torso pivots and reclines. At no point does Connally "sail forward".

There is also the odd lifting of JFK’s hair on the right side of his head that George Hickey observed at the time of the second shot (z273-277).

Finally, there is Wm Greer’s first turn around at around z280 which he said he did immediately after -“almost simultaneous” with- the second shot.

Hickey (on right edge of photo above) is looking backwards and his head is lower than the standing agents. Photo taken one second before Mason says Hickey turned fully around, scanned about and saw Kennedy's hair 'flew forward".

Hickey associated the hair movement with the impact on the head: ""the right side of his head was hit and his hair flew forward". The Z270s hair movement is a tiny lock that falls downward because Kennedy's head is tilted forward. Hickey can't see that part of Kennedy's head. Mason is tailoring the evidence to fit his lamebrain Theory.