When Was JBC Hit?

[John Mytton]

      As difficult as it might be, try to FOCUS on the Laser projected bullet trajectory. You are so far off your game or what used to be your game, I feel sorry for you. Knott Labs has really knocked you for a loop.  SBT = "IMPOSSIBLE"

Sorry Royell, this has nothing to do with me!
YOU, yourself have "proven" that the basic building block that Knott Labs relied on was Bogus. You Lose.

Even though you inadvertently have supplied further Proof of the Current Z Film being Bogus,

JohnM

[Zeon Mason]

Too bad that Harold Norman completed his 3 shots fired  timing in less than 4 secs.

Too bad Harold Normans description of what he saw was that he heard the 1st shot, then saw JFK “slump” then Norman heard 2 more shots.

Combined together, Norman heard 3 shots in about 3.5 seconds and the 1st shot Must have HIT JFK , causing him to slump , then followed by the next 2 shots Norman heard , which were only 1.5 sec apart resulting in all 3 shots being fired in 4 secs or less.

But yes, only 3 shots did Norman hear as did about 2/3rds majority of earwitness.

And Norman heard 3 shells hiring the floor, and thought he heard the operation of a bolt action rifle as “click click” .

interesting coincidences:
1. The  M1941 Johnson 7.62 mm semi auto rifle makes a “click” noise as it ejects a spent shell.
2. The M1941 Johnson. 7.62 mm rifle was one of the type rifles issued to Bay of Pigs invasion soldiers/ CIA operatives.
3. The M1941 when disassembled could fit in a 24” length bag
4. One eyewitness described a  rifle she saw as a “machinegun” The M1941 rifle  has a partial heat shield  similar to a 30 cal machinegun.
5. One M1941 rifle may  have been traced back to one Loran Hall who also may have been a BOP operative.

Question: Is there any way that Norman could have  mistaken the sound of a semi auto rifle that clicks” when it ejects a shell, as an MC bolt action rifle?

Lee Bowers ,  the Tower operator , reinforces  Norman’s rapid 3-4 sec Time with his own replication rapping his hand 3 times rapidly on his desk, (Mark Lane recorded interview) completing the sequence in about 3 secs also.

The Probability based on  these 2 witness, (presuming no 2nd shooter with a silenced rifle),  is that 3 shots were fired rapidly , in a span of only 3-4 secs , with the last 2 shots only about 1.5 sec apart and that the FIRST shot DID hit JFK causing him to slump, followed by 2 more shots, the last one being at at Z313.

Conclusion: If only one shooter, he was not using the MC bolt action rifle which would require most likely at least 6-7 secs to get 2 hits , one being the head shot.

The First shot therefore must be the Z223-224 shot , which caused JFK to slump as Norman observed , then followed by 2 more shots which ended with the Z313 shot. By the Z film , therefore, all 3 shots would have been fired in an approx span of 4.8 sec or less.

Note: there was ONE CBS time trial shooter (the old engineer dude) whom was recorded on film managing to fire 3 shots from an MC rifle  in 5.1 secs and scoring 3 hits to the body of the JFK target figure.  ( but missed the head)

Unfortunately NONE of the CBS time trial
Shooters were using the position of sitting on the box beside the pipes in the SN, and then leaning over, which is the position that is the most likely one used if the TSBD 6th floor SE window shooter remained out of sight during the Hughes film footage of the JFK  limo approaching the TSBD along Houston st.

[Andrew Mason]

And I know that if Connally way back when he examined individual frames had this added degree of accuracy he would would heartily agree with this unescapable conclusion!

That is very persuasive.  But I can do better.  I say that this was the first shot ie. there was no earlier missed shot. And I know that if JFK had survived the assassination attempt by Oswald, he would agree with that inescapable conclusion. Presidential credibility beats Governor credibility so you can't get any better than that.

[Jack Nessan]

To assume two people will react the same exact way is flawed reasoning. JBC’s facial expression looks like he is processing something when he emerges from behind the sign. A persons reaction does not exactly coincide with what they are experiencing. There is a time lapse between the two. Only the eyewitnesses can explain what transpired behind the sign. They are the only ones who saw and heard what transpired. The Chism’s positioned around what would be JFK at Z217 to Z218 state JFK was shot before he had gotten to them. Where is the confusion in understanding these people are explaining what happened.

John Chism: “Just as he got just about in front of me” 

Jackie and Nelie reference that JFK and JBC were hit by the same shot, as did Bill Newman and Bobby Hargis. 

 Honestly is this really this incomprehensible that something this simple cannot be rationalized and understood?

[Michael T. Griffith]

The WC apologists' posts in this thread are a sad but telling example of why nearly all the progress made on the case has been made by WC skeptics. WC apologists are chained down by the Commission's fictional one-shooter-three-shot scenario and so they are forced to come up with ludicrous explanations for evidence that deep down they know refutes the single-bullet theory.

Of all the whacky, self-evidently bogus arguments put forward by WC defenders, the claim that JFK and Connally were hit by the same bullet in Z224 has to rank in the Top 10.

Anyone with functioning eyes can see that JFK is clearly and obviously already reacting to a wound when he partially reemerges into view in Z224 as we see his left forearm nearing the level of his throat, and Jackie is clearly and obviously already noticing JFK's reaction in Z224. Unless you're committed to denying your own eyes can see, you know that these reactions must have started many frames before Z224.

Moreover, even if you force yourself to ignore the self-evident reactions in Z224, there is also the fact that in Z225, when we can see both of JFK's forearms, we see that JFK has both of his hands in a clutching formation and is bringing both hands up to the level of his throat. There is no way he could have done this in response to a shot at Z224. Humans cannot respond and move their arms that rapidly after being wounded. Not on this planet.

And then, of course, there is the fact that Connally survived his wounds and adamantly insisted he was not hit before Z228. No one knows you better than you. No one knows what your facial expressions and body movements mean better than you do. Connally had knowledge that no one else had (1) because he was the guy who actually experienced the wounding, and (2) because no one knew him better than he did.

After carefully studying high-quality prints of the Zapruder film under high magnification, Connally said he was certain beyond all doubt that he was not hit before Z228, and he identified Z234 as the moment of impact--and just four frames later, or just 4/18ths of a second later, or just 222 milliseconds later, or less than 1/4th of a second later, we see the start of the dramatic slamming down of his right shoulder, in perfect harmony with his statement that the bullet's impact felt like someone hit him hard in the back.

I know we can all see these things. It's just a question of whether or not one is willing to be honest and credible about what they prove.

[Jack Nessan]

The WC apologists' posts in this thread are a sad but telling example of why nearly all the progress made on the case has been made by WC skeptics. WC apologists are chained down by the Commission's fictional one-shooter-three-shot scenario and so they are forced to come up with ludicrous explanations for evidence that deep down they know refutes the single-bullet theory.

Of all the whacky, self-evidently bogus arguments put forward by WC defenders, the claim that JFK and Connally were hit by the same bullet in Z224 has to rank in the Top 10.

Anyone with functioning eyes can see that JFK is clearly and obviously already reacting to a wound when he partially reemerges into view in Z224 as we see his left forearm nearing the level of his throat, and Jackie is clearly and obviously already noticing JFK's reaction in Z224. Unless you're committed to denying your own eyes can see, you know that these reactions must have started many frames before Z224.

Moreover, even if you force yourself to ignore the self-evident reactions in Z224, there is also the fact that in Z225, when we can see both of JFK's forearms, we see that JFK has both of his hands in a clutching formation and is bringing both hands up to the level of his throat. There is no way he could have done this in response to a shot at Z224. Humans cannot respond and move their arms that rapidly after being wounded. Not on this planet.

And then, of course, there is the fact that Connally survived his wounds and adamantly insisted he was not hit before Z228. No one knows you better than you. No one knows what your facial expressions and body movements mean better than you do. Connally had knowledge that no one else had (1) because he was the guy who actually experienced the wounding, and (2) because no one knew him better than he did.

After carefully studying high-quality prints of the Zapruder film under high magnification, Connally said he was certain beyond all doubt that he was not hit before Z228, and he identified Z234 as the moment of impact--and just four frames later, or just 4/18ths of a second later, or just 222 milliseconds later, or less than 1/4th of a second later, we see the start of the dramatic slamming down of his right shoulder, in perfect harmony with his statement that the bullet's impact felt like someone hit him hard in the back.

I know we can all see these things. It's just a question of whether or not one is willing to be honest and credible about what they prove.

 Given how close JBC and JFK were to each other in the car. Explain JBC's wound and from where did the shot originate from if the bullet did not pass through JFK first. Was there two shooters sitting side by side in the Snipers Nest? Early on, JBC gave all kinds of statements and most do not match up with previous statements. Nellie even changed her statement to match his.

It is known that the shots originated from the 6th floor window above BRW, Jarmin, and Norman. We also know BRW said there was two shots and Jarmin describes the headshot as the second shot. You may not like SBT but it is the only answer possible unless you think JFK somehow shot JBC. That would be the only other answer.

[Michael T. Griffith]

Given how close JBC and JFK were to each other in the car. Explain JBC's wound and from where did the shot originate from if the bullet did not pass through JFK first. Was there two shooters sitting side by side in the Snipers Nest? Early on, JBC gave all kinds of statements and most do not match up with previous statements. Nellie even changed her statement to match his.

False. Connally was consistent on every major point in his various statements through at least the 1970s.

I'm baffled as to how you could think that any shot that hit Connally would have had to first hit JFK. That's just silly, even if you assume that all the shots came from the sixth-floor window.

Moreover, a gunman firing from the Dal-Tex Building or the County Records Building could have barely missed Kennedy and accidentally hit Connally instead.

It is known that the shots originated from the 6th floor window above BRW, Jarmin, and Norman. We also know BRW said there was two shots and Jarmin describes the headshot as the second shot. You may not like SBT but it is the only answer possible unless you think JFK somehow shot JBC. That would be the only other answer.

I think you're another one who's stuck in a time warp. You talk like we're in the early 1970s. Are you unaware of recent research that has utterly destroyed the SBT? Do you know anything about the ARRB disclosures about the back wound's location, about the absolute determination at the autopsy that the back wound was shallow and had no exit point, about the fragments in the C3/C4 region, etc., etc.? Are you aware that the HSCA's photographic experts found clear, powerful evidence that JFK was hit before Z190, i.e., when the sixth-floor gunman's view would have been obstructed by the oak tree? And on and on we could go.