When Was JBC Hit?

[Martin Weidmann]

Yes that can be true, nobody wants to be wrong.

In the following video Jay Watson who was a reporter and trained to notice details and was in a media follow up car quickly got back to the studio and tells the world within the hour @27:40 that there was three shots.
At another point in the video Bill Newman doesn't recall a third shot but his wife @32:20 recalls three shots.
Also Jerry, Jay's colleague in the follow up car @36:20 recalls 3 shots.

@27:40

Imo in this case the strongest pieces of evidence is the three expended shells found on the floor of the sniper's nest which concurs with the vast majority of earwitnesses.





JohnM

Imo in this case the strongest pieces of evidence is the three expended shells found on the floor of the sniper's nest which concurs with the vast majority of earwitnesses.

Are these the shells Fritz picked up or the ones he threw down in the sniper's nest?

[Dan O'meara]

Sure, they accurately laser plotted Dealey Plaza 60 years later, did they allow for the variation in land movement, repaved road height, etc etc?

Also I juxtaposed the two frames from their video presentation and matching the two images showed heavy variations, for example the Don Knotts Lab's Stemmons sign has the wrong angle, the side of the Limo warps, Connally's shoulder height is way off, etc etc.
And again, and listen closely this time, as can be seen by The Don Knotts Lab Hulking out Connally, this avalanche of mistakes leads to more unavoidable errors and lastly the exact plotting of the precise 3D positions of Hulked out Connally and Kennedy from a 2D image is open to biased interpretation.
Iirc Dale Myers scientifically allowed any variations of 3D depth which concurred with the 2D images to fit his hypothesis whereas the opposite methodology of placing the models to achieve a predetermined outcome is the antithesis of science.



JohnM

Great graphics (as per usual) by yourself and Jerry.
The difference in Connally's positioning between the two images is startling.
How has this passed under the radar for such a supposedly hi-tech representation?
It's so bad it has the whiff of something trying to fit a preconceived idea.

LATER EDIT:  And what's with the wing mirror?

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

When was JBC shot through the chest?
I ask "when" in terms of the Z-film - when in the Z-film is JBC hit?
That is to say, when does JBC first show signs that he has been hit [as we cannot see the actual bullet entering him].
I am not asking, when does JBC think he was hit or when any other witness believes he was hit or what any "theory" has to say about it.
When, during the Z-film, does JBC show the clear signs of an extreme reaction that can be safely interpreted as being shot through the chest?

In the clip below, which is s bit jerkier than I would like, we see JBC looking off to his right as JFK waves and smiles to the crowds. He is partially obscured by a part of the limo.
JBC is looking off to his right as he disappears behind the Stemmons sign.
He is still looking off to his right as he emerges from behind the Stemmons sign.



Below is z223.
It shows JBC after he emerges from behind the Stemmons sign.
He is still looking off to his right as he was before he passed behind the Stemmons sign and, in my opinion, he looks calm and composed:




Almost immediately after this frame JBC appears to have an extreme reaction.
The clip below is from z222 to z250.
In my opinion it shows JBC having an extreme reaction, most likely to being shot:



Is it an extreme reaction to being shot or could it be something else?
If you agree it is a reaction to being shot then when does this reaction begin?

Connally starts to react at Z224.
If reaction takes say 0.25 sec then that is 4.5 Z frames, which suggests that the shot was at Z219.5, ie Z219 or Z220.

The lapel flips at Z224.
Lattimer's tests show that a lapel flip happens 0.3 sec after the shot (if the slug is tumbling as it exits).
This suggests that the shot was 5.5 frames before the shot, which suggests that the shot was at Z218.5, ie Z218 or Z219.

I have shown that the Lattimer test had the slug too close to the lapel, in fact Lattimer's shot took a chunk out of the edge of the lapel.
So, Lattimer's test was too forceful, ie if the slug had exited in the correct location then the shot would be say 0.33  sec before, not 0.3 sec before.
This suggests that the shot was 6.0 frames before, ie at Z218.0, ie at Z218, which is what i have always said.

What i mean is that Oswald's shot-2 hit Connally at Z218.
The shot would have left the muzzle at say Z216.
Sound would have hit Connally's ears at say Z220 (too lazy to do a proper calc).

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

Sure, they accurately laser plotted Dealey Plaza 60 years later, did they allow for the variation in land movement, repaved road height, etc etc?

Also I juxtaposed the two frames from their video presentation and matching the two images showed heavy variations, for example the Don Knotts Lab's Stemmons sign has the wrong angle, the side of the Limo warps, Connally's shoulder height is way off, etc etc.
And again, and listen closely this time, as can be seen by The Don Knotts Lab Hulking out Connally, this avalanche of mistakes leads to more unavoidable errors and lastly the exact plotting of the precise 3D positions of Hulked out Connally and Kennedy from a 2D image is open to biased interpretation.
Iirc Dale Myers scientifically allowed any variations of 3D depth which concurred with the 2D images to fit his hypothesis whereas the opposite methodology of placing the models to achieve a predetermined outcome is the antithesis of science.



JohnM

Knotts Lab said that they allowed for the change in height due to the road re-paving.
But i know that re-paving often involves digging out the old tarmacs, ie 2 or 3 ovem, before laying the new.
So, a new level is sometimes lower than the old level.
But this will have a minor effect, compared to any issue re the positions & angles of jfk & Connally.

Knotts did a krapp job of estimating the positions of jfk & of Connally.
Dale Myers did a good job.

We see jfk turning from his right to his left during say Z190 to when he disappears behind the sign at say Z214.
When i replicate that kind of turn i naturally dip forward a little.
With a back brace on i reckon the forward dip would be even greater.

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

   
  FOLLOW THE SCIENCE. This Laser 360 Technology is far more advanced than ANY that has EVER been done with regard to the JFK Assassination/Dealey Plaza.  The Knott Lab 360 technology has routinely been used/accepted in court cases across the USA. CASE CLOSED!

Royell Royell Royell, u really should try the carnivore diet.

A laser 3D survey adds nothing to any SBT analysis.
A 1963 survey is all that is needed.
The hijinx is in the placing of jfk & Connally & limo.

Re the limo, Greer ran the left wheels just shy of the left lane line.
This placed jfk close to the center of the road, ie the center of the 3 lanes.
After all, jfk should be located at nearly an even distance from gawkers on the left & on the right.
The X painted in the center lane is well placed.

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

You also missed the most reliable piece of evidence of an earlier shot, when Zapruder who was continuously filming while all three shots rang out makes three unique vertical reactions!!!

Zapruder up till and including the headshot only makes three startled vertical jumps while filming, the head shot at Z313, the shot when the Limo emerges from behind the sign and the earlier shot just before Rosemary Willis slows and turns when she says she heard a shot and Connally's quick head turn as confirmed by his own words, testimony which you conveniently ignored. -smug emoji-



Btw it took time for the gun shot sounds to reach Zapruder hence the slight delay in his reactions.

JohnM

Jack your comments, in every thread that i have recently read, are top quality, i have allways been very impressed.

But i wanted to point out that Oswald's shot-1 was back at the signals at about pseudo Z105, whereas Zapruder's sequence started at Z133.
Shot-1 was frame T137 of Towner's footage. T242 being the last frame of that sequence (this is my numbering i think)(not the official numbering)(i made my own frames).
I forget what her frame rate was, probly about 16 fps, compared to Zapruder's 18.3 fps.
Towner would have reacted (jiggled) at about T242, but T242 was her final frame, & there was no Towner jiggle as far as i am aware.

Oswald's shot-2 was at say Z218, sound hit Zapruder at say Z223, startle reaction would have been at say Z227.

The next problem is that Oswald did not fire a shot-3.
Shot-3 4 5 6 & possibly a shot-7 were from Hickey's AR15.
In any case the last shot was the headshot.
So, Hickey shot from say Z300 to Z312.
So, the sound would have hit Zapruder at say Z301 to Z313 (i am too lazy to do exact calcs).

There are 2 kinds of camera jiggle, we have the blast jiggle, & later we have the operator startle reaction jiggle (u of course know all of this stuff).

Anyhow, any worthwhile analysis needs to consider the above info (especially shot timings), which is beyond theory, it is fact.

[Royell Storing]

Royell Royell Royell, u really should try the carnivore diet.

A laser 3D survey adds nothing to any SBT analysis.
A 1963 survey is all that is needed.
The hijinx is in the placing of jfk & Connally & limo.

Re the limo, Greer ran the left wheels just shy of the left lane line.
This placed jfk close to the center of the road, ie the center of the 3 lanes.
After all, jfk should be located at nearly an even distance from gawkers on the left & on the right.
The X painted in the center lane is well placed.

 Yeah, I'm gonna go with Your eyeballing images vs Laser 360 Images from various points inside Dealey Plaza along with Z Frames and other images fed into the Knott Lab computers. Knott Lab work is routinely admitted and relied on in courts across this country.  The SBT in any discussion is now DOA. RIP