When Was JBC Hit?

[Charles Collins]

 All,
 
  I posted the wrong gif yesterday, and meant to post the one attached, which is much slower and makes it easier to watch Connally's double shoulder up and down movement.
It's very difficult to see it at regular speed.  My apologies or posting the wrong gif.  It's easiest to see if you watch his right shoulder.

 

Thanks Steve, that’s a very clear sequence of frames and it shows the double shoulder movement as you describe. It also shows JFK’s concurrent reactions, JBC’s jacket front flipping out, and JBC’s right hand and arm moving rapidly upwards. All of this happens in a small fraction of a second. It sure looks to me like this is where both JFK and JBC were struck with CE 399.

[Jerry Organ]

No.  It is about what you need to do in order to justify calling it "bats_it crazy". (I would write it out in full but it comes out as batspombleprofglidnoctobuns).
 A sight line is a sightline.  The zoom lens changes perspective but not sightlines.  Changing focal length does not unblock parts that were previously blocked.

In your zoom "correction" you have JFK too far to the right.   

That's where you have Kennedy and where he ends up with the proper perspective and line-of-sight. I discovered you had Kennedy pressed about six inches into the seat-back. So the President, per your Theory, is too far back, not too far to his right.

In z193 the sightline from Zapruder blocks up to the right edge of the left trunk hand-hold:

I have more confidence where the back tire and door seams are in that view than where I used to place the hand-grips. I've since slightly shifted the hand-grip location a few times, based on better information and photos. Without my own direct measurements (or someone who takes measurements and documents exactly where they start from and go to), I can't vouch for it.



Here's where your back tire and door leave Kennedy.

Yes.  You might use this as a guide:

Right. So we know how that person on that particular day had his knees high up, as least the moment the photo was taken. That has no more to do with how Connally's knees might have been than the man in the back seat has to do with how JFK sat. What if the door was closed and leaning one legs against it was helpful.



This photograph shows Kennedy with both knees together and against the car interior. By your definition, the President is a eunuch. There is no sign that Connally's thighs are sharply angled up.

I'm going to amend my model of your Theory with some or all of this:

• Distance between JFK's exit wound and JBC's spine about 30-32 inches.
• Connally a bit lower
• Connally's head aligned with the side window, while being over as far as possible to the side of the car
• Connally's torso twisted
• Raise up Connally's left knee
• Slope of 21 degrees relative to the car

I won't make Connally's head disturbingly smaller.

[Steve Barber]

Thanks Steve, that’s a very clear sequence of frames and it shows the double shoulder movement as you describe. It also shows JFK’s concurrent reactions, JBC’s jacket front flipping out, and JBC’s right hand and arm moving rapidly upwards. All of this happens in a small fraction of a second. It sure looks to me like this is where both JFK and JBC were struck with CE 399.

  My pleasure, Charles.  I'm you are able to see the "hunching" of the shoulders.  It was David Von Pein  who first pointed this out, although I didn't know that he had until after I saw it, and I started a thread in a JFK group and included this gif a long while back, and he posted a note informing us that he had found this himself, and had also posted a gif of it. 
I agree with you all the way that this is further proof of both men reacting simutaneously by the same bullet.  Thanks so much!

[Andrew Mason]

  My pleasure, Charles.  I'm you are able to see the "hunching" of the shoulders.  It was David Von Pein  who first pointed this out, although I didn't know that he had until after I saw it, and I started a thread in a JFK group and included this gif a long while back, and he posted a note informing us that he had found this himself, and had also posted a gif of it. 
I agree with you all the way that this is further proof of both men reacting simutaneously by the same bullet.  Thanks so much!

I don’t dispute that they are reacting at the same time to the same shot. I just disagree that the evidence supports it being the second shot.

[Steve Barber]

I don’t dispute that they are reacting at the same time to the same shot. I just disagree that the evidence supports it being the second shot.

  One of the three shots missed the target.  We know that both men were struck where the film shows them being struck. Energing from behind the stemmons sign, and the fatal shot.
This leaves only one other shot, and that shot had to have been fired early, like around Zapruder frame 155/156. 

 A. Zapruder's camera jiggle proves that a shot was fired there.
 B. The sudden head turns of both JFK and Governor Connally-both of whom were looking to their left. And one thing most people do not notice is that Connally was looking to his right
when Zapruder first began filming, turned to his left, then suddenlly jerked his head back to the right, where his head remained turned during the entire travel down Elm Street until he comes out from behind the sign, which is the first motion he made-other than taking his right hand off the top of the side rail of the car. 

   This is exactly what the Zapruder film shows.  Three sudden reactions to three rifle shot sounds.

[Jack Nessan]

  One of the three shots missed the target.  We know that both men were struck where the film shows them being struck. Energing from behind the stemmons sign, and the fatal shot.
This leaves only one other shot, and that shot had to have been fired early, like around Zapruder frame 155/156. 

 A. Zapruder's camera jiggle proves that a shot was fired there.
 B. The sudden head turns of both JFK and Governor Connally-both of whom were looking to their left. And one thing most people do not notice is that Connally was looking to his right
when Zapruder first began filming, turned to his left, then suddenlly jerked his head back to the right, where his head remained turned during the entire travel down Elm Street until he comes out from behind the sign, which is the first motion he made-other than taking his right hand off the top of the side rail of the car. 

   This is exactly what the Zapruder film shows.  Three sudden reactions to three rifle shot sounds.

The physical evidence does not support three shots. The FBI only noted two of the three shells found in the SN exhibited the “chambering mark” from the rifle. CE 543 did not have the indentation. Even the unfired cartridge exhibited the chambering mark along with the next thirty shells, as was noted by Josiah Thompson, that had been fired in the rifle.

Zapruder--Reactions and Jiggle Analysis? Zapruder is a two shot witness.

[Steve Barber]

The physical evidence does not support three shots. The FBI only noted two of the three shells found in the SN exhibited the “chambering mark” from the rifle. CE 543 did not have the indentation. Even the unfired cartridge exhibited the chambering mark along with the next thirty shells, as was noted by Josiah Thompson, that had been fired in the rifle.

Zapruder--Reactions and Jiggle Analysis? Zapruder is a two shot witness.

  Wrong, the physical evidence DOES support 3 shots, but you go ahead and believe that there are not three distinct sudden physical motions by both men in the limousine. Your credibilty is a stake.

   Zapruder's camera doesn't lie.   Zapruder wasn't counting the shots as they went off, and within hours of the assassination, he didn't know for sure that he heard 2 or 3 shots.  Watch his interview with Jay Watson, WFAA-TV.  "...[T]hen I heard another shot or two..."  after having earlier seen the "president slump to the side-like this".   Zapruder was a two or three shot witness. 

[Andrew Mason]

  One of the three shots missed the target.

If that was the case then the SBT would be correct.  But if that were the case why are they so many witnesses who recalled that JFK reacted immediately to the first shot by doing things we don’t see him doing until after he emerges from behind the Stemmons sign? why are there so many witnesses who said the last two shots were in rapid succession? why are witnesses consistent with the first shot being after z186 (Betzner) after the VP car had completed the turn and going downhill? An instant before z202 (Philip Willis)? etc?

We know that both men were struck where the film shows them being struck.

“We” don’t know that. John Connally said he knew that was not the case. Nellie C. as well. At least three members of the WC didn’t believe it and none of those that did said they thought it was the second shot.

A. Zapruder's camera jiggle proves that a shot was fired there.

There are at least 8 jiggles. Besides, there would have to be 2 frames between the bullet strike and the sound arriving at Zapruder’s ears and then a frame or two to react.

B. The sudden head turns of both JFK and Governor Connally-both of whom were looking to their left. And one thing most people do not notice is that Connally was looking to his right
when Zapruder first began filming, turned to his left, then suddenlly jerked his head back to the right, where his head remained turned during the entire travel down Elm Street until he comes out from behind the sign, which is the first motion he made-other than taking his right hand off the top of the side rail of the car.

And Mary Woodward said that she shouted at the President as he approached and he and Jackie turned to their right and the President acknowledged them as the car passed by. She was certain they were the last people he acknowledged before that first horrible ear-shattering noise.