RIP to the Single-bullet theory?

[Martin Weidmann]

People who try to make something out of nothing will never be satisfied.

Making something out of nothing??

Latona is the supervisor of the latent fingerprint section of the identification division of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. He is the FBI's main man for fingerprint identification with decades of experience.
He was examining the weapon that was supposed to have murdered the President, trying to ID the murderer. He had the weapon taken apart and examined every part of the rifle in full.
Not only did he find no palm print, he found no attempt had been made to lift such a print. There was no print on that rifle when it reached Latona a few hours after it had been released by Day.
So, perhaps the print was somehow completely wiped from the barrel in transit. That is the only feasible explanation if Day is being truthful.

That Day insists he had no time to examine the lift he had taken from the rifle with the print taken from Oswald is clearly nonsensical. It's got nothing to do with being asked to stop work on the rifle. Day had the palm print for days and had more than enough time to examine it. Remember, this was the piece of evidence that put the murder weapon in Oswald's hands. To imagine that this would not have been a top priority is delusional.

Something about this really stinks and for you to infer I'm making something out of nothing is unreasonable, to say the least.

The whole thing is an absurd fiasco. It's the most important murder case of the decade and the chief forensic officer of the DPD treats it as if he's on the job for his first day.
The fact that the WC was not convinced by Day's initial story and wanted further investigation, tells you enough of how pityfull this whole thing is.

Rankin and Liebeler wanted authentication for the palmprint, because they considered it possible that the print came from another source. It actually said so in Rankin's memo. But they soon learned that they were not going to get anything out of Day beyond his initial narrative. Desperate to resolve the matter one way or the other they ask Latona to compare the palmprint on the index card with the rifle (it took them nearly a year to come up with that one!) and low and behold suddenly Latona sees some markings on the rifle which he thinks he can identify on the palmprint as well.... Oh well, case closed, right?

That palmprint must have been lifted from the rifle, yes? So, now they get really superficial and fail to ask the question how and when that print could have gotten on the rifle. They also forget to wonder how it was possible that Day said there was residue of the print on the rifle on 11/22/63 but when Lotana examined the weapon the next they it had magically disappeared.

But let's not get sidetracked. How did the print get on the rifle..... Could that only be because Oswald actually touched the rifle and left a parcial print, or is there another possibility. Well, actually, yes there is; if you have a print on cellophane it is beyond easy to apply that print, with the tape, to the rifle and it will give you, on the print, exactly the same markings of the rifle. Don't believe me? Well try it yourself and find out (as if that's going to happen   ).

But the bottom line is that this amateur hour like mess doesn't only occur here. It's all over the case. There is not a single piece of physical evidence that is without an evidentiary problem. And it happened in the single most important murder investigation of the decade.

Could it be sheer incompetence of the investigators? Yes, it could be but I somehow don't think so....

Just imagine a prosecutor having to take this mess to court and convince a jury.......

[David Von Pein]

Can you please give us a link to the full exchange, Mr. von Pein? Thank you! 

Here it is (below). The stuff about Lt. Day and the palmprint appears on Pages 8 thru 10 of this EF Forum thread:

https://web.archive.org/web/20130423005722/http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=19977&st=105#entry269239

[Alan Ford]

Here it is (below). The stuff about Lt. Day and the palmprint appears on Pages 8 thru 10 of this EF Forum thread:

https://web.archive.org/web/20130423005722/http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=19977&st=105#entry269239

Thank you! 

[John Iacoletti]

That letter in CE2637 is certainly enough proof for me.

Of course it is.

[Charles Collins]

People who try to make something out of nothing will never be satisfied.

Making something out of nothing??

Latona is the supervisor of the latent fingerprint section of the identification division of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. He is the FBI's main man for fingerprint identification with decades of experience.
He was examining the weapon that was supposed to have murdered the President, trying to ID the murderer. He had the weapon taken apart and examined every part of the rifle in full.
Not only did he find no palm print, he found no attempt had been made to lift such a print. There was no print on that rifle when it reached Latona a few hours after it had been released by Day.
So, perhaps the print was somehow completely wiped from the barrel in transit. That is the only feasible explanation if Day is being truthful.

That Day insists he had no time to examine the lift he had taken from the rifle with the print taken from Oswald is clearly nonsensical. It's got nothing to do with being asked to stop work on the rifle. Day had the palm print for days and had more than enough time to examine it. Remember, this was the piece of evidence that put the murder weapon in Oswald's hands. To imagine that this would not have been a top priority is delusional.

Something about this really stinks and for you to infer I'm making something out of nothing is unreasonable, to say the least.

Not only did he find no palm print, he found no attempt had been made to lift such a print.

That’s not true. He said he found no indication (as in cellophane for an indicator, like the prints on the trigger guard) that a print had been lifted from the bottom of the barrel. There is no way Latona could have determined that no attempt had been made by simply examining the rifle.


So, perhaps the print was somehow completely wiped from the barrel in transit. That is the only feasible explanation if Day is being truthful.

There are plenty of explanations. If you read Latona’s testimony you will learn that he chose to use gray powder. Day had used black powder. That difference could have contributed to the problem. Latona also said that even using a lot of various lighting techniques he could barely discern the partial prints on the trigger guard. Yet Day could see these prints clearly in the less than ideal lighting in the TSBD. The differences in powder colors and eyesight perceptions could explain some things. Maybe Latona could see gray on the rifle finish better than he could see black.
You can suspect that there is “something that stinks” if you wish to do that. I really don’t care. If you want to convince others, you might need some evidence.


That Day insists he had no time to examine the lift he had taken from the rifle with the print taken from Oswald is clearly nonsensical. It's got nothing to do with being asked to stop work on the rifle. Day had the palm print for days and had more than enough time to examine it. Remember, this was the piece of evidence that put the murder weapon in Oswald's hands. To imagine that this would not have been a top priority is delusional.

 Just because you (in hindsight) think Day should have kept working on the palm print lift, doesn’t mean that Day felt that way. He had already done a preliminary examination and believed it was Oswald’s print. He had been told to stop the examination. I could easily understand that he might have decided to not continue until he was told to do so.


Something about this really stinks and for you to infer I'm making something out of nothing is unreasonable, to say the least.

I didn’t have anyone specific in mind regarding that generalization. You shouln’t take it personally.

[John Iacoletti]

But Liebeler said they realized the problem could be resolved "in another way." Several Commission assistant counsels subsequently met with FBI inspector James R. Malley, the bureau's liaison with the Commission, and FBI fingerprint expert Sebastian Latona. Liebeler asked Latona whether there was a way to prove that the lift came from the rifle. Latona reexamined the lift submitted by Lieutenant Day and noticed pits, marks, and rust spots on it that corresponded to identical areas on the underside of the rifle barrel--the very spot from which Day said the print had been lifted

While this is convenient hearsay, Speer is right in asking why there is no report or testimony from Latona confirming any of this. The WC called William Whaley back just to clarify where he dropped off Oswald, but the supposed confirmation of an Oswald print being lifted from the rifle wasn’t important enough to pursue?

Speer’s entire chapter on the whole palm print debacle (as well as the other prints) is well worth the read. He also covers how Carl Day’s story morphed over the days, weeks, and years.

https://www.patspeer.com/chapter4e-un-smoking-the-gun

One interesting tidbit is that there was an earlier version of the Pinkston memo that makes clear that it is referring to the trigger guard print that Day was examining in the TSBD.

[John Iacoletti]

Day said otherwise and Rusty said he was right there with Day and Drain when the rifle was turned over and Rusty agrees with Day. Rusty says there was another FBI agent with Drain who was trying to make them all hurry up. And that Drain was only half listening to Day.

Closing ranks, as cops do. And a dumb excuse. This wasn’t important enough to turn over as evidence or to even bother getting Drain’s attention about?

Why do you keep insisting Drain knew nothing about it?

Because Drain said he didn’t know anything about it.