RIP to the Single-bullet theory?

[Jarrett Smith]

“Indeed, his partner, Clint Hill, the legendary Secret Service agent who clambered onto the back of the speeding limousine in a futile effort to save Kennedy, discouraged Mr. Landis from speaking out. “Many ramifications,” Mr. Hill warned in a 2014 email that Mr. Landis saved and shared last month.

Mr. Hill, who has set out his own account of what happened in multiple books and interviews, cast doubt on Mr. Landis’s version on Friday. “I believe it raises concerns when the story he is telling now, 60 years after the fact, is different than the statements he wrote in the days following the tragedy” and told in subsequent years, Mr. Hill said in an email. “In my mind, there are serious inconsistencies in his various statements/stories.””

"At the first shot, Mr. Landis turned to look over his right shoulder in the direction of the sound but spotted nothing. Then he turned to the limousine and saw Kennedy raising his arms, evidently hit. Suddenly, Mr. Landis noticed that Mr. Hill had leapt off their follow-up car and was sprinting toward the limousine. Mr. Landis thought about doing the same but did not have an angle."

"He said he heard a second shot that sounded louder and finally the fatal third shot that hit Kennedy in the head. Mr. Landis had to duck to avoid being splattered by flesh and brain matter. He knew instantly that the president was dead. Mr. Hill, now on the back of the limousine, turned back and confirmed it with a thumbs down."

I don't believe him 100% because that isn't what happened. Hill did not jump off until Kennedy was already struck in the head. The bang bang with one that was louder I do believe... one from the Knoll, one from the TSBD.

[Charles Collins]

It was not until 2014 that he realized that the official account of the bullet differed from his memory, he said, but he did not come forward then out of a feeling that he had made a mistake in putting it on the stretcher without telling anyone in that pre-C.S.I., secure-the-crime-scene era.

“I didn’t want to talk about it,” Mr. Landis said. “I was afraid. I started to think, did I do something wrong? There was a fear that I might have done something wrong and I shouldn’t talk about it.”
Indeed, his partner, Clint Hill, the legendary Secret Service agent who clambered onto the back of the speeding limousine in a futile effort to save Kennedy, discouraged Mr. Landis from speaking out. “Many ramifications,” Mr. Hill warned in a 2014 email that Mr. Landis saved and shared last month.

Mr. Hill, who has set out his own account of what happened in multiple books and interviews, cast doubt on Mr. Landis’s version on Friday. “I believe it raises concerns when the story he is telling now, 60 years after the fact, is different than the statements he wrote in the days following the tragedy” and told in subsequent years, Mr. Hill said in an email. “In my mind, there are serious inconsistencies in his various statements/stories.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/09/us/politics/jfk-assassination-witness-paul-landis.html

“I believe it raises concerns when the story he is telling now, 60 years after the fact, is different than the statements he wrote in the days following the tragedy” and told in subsequent years, Mr. Hill said in an email. “In my mind, there are serious inconsistencies in his various statements/stories.”

I would like to add that Paul Landis’ outlandish story most certainly fits my definition of a morphing memory. And therefore could be added to the ones already specified in the thread by that title.


Additionally, there is this from the Vanity Fair article:

But there seem to be only two real possibilities, both of which can be inferred from the Zapruder film. One way is that an undercharged bullet, having already been lodged in the president’s back from an initial gunshot, was jolted out of his body after a subsequent shot to the head caused his upper body to be thrown violently back against the seat, bouncing off of it with great force. A second possibility is that at some point in those hectic moments, the bullet fell out of the president’s back and onto the first lady’s clothing (her white-gloved hand did brush hard against his back, around where the bullet could have been embedded at the moment of the final shot). As one can see in the Zapruder film, Jackie, at this stage, climbed onto the trunk of the speeding car, possibly to look for or retrieve a portion of her husband’s skull—or out of sheer panic to take cover from further gunshots. In fact, the section of the back seat over which she stretched corresponds to the spot where Landis says he found the bullet.

So this “theory” that you suggest might be able to “kill” the single bullet theory apparently depends upon a theory of a reduced velocity bullet that was going slow enough to only penetrate a short distance into JFK’s neck and then fall out. The Vanity Fair article suggests an “undercharged bullet,” something that, despite all the various tests done with the same type of ammunition (by the same manufacturer) after the assassination, no one else has reported (that I am aware of).

I was hit by a BB when I was a much younger and more foolish person. It lodged just beneath the skin but still had to be surgically removed. A typical BB gun from that era fired in the range of approximately a 300 to 400 feet per second velocity. The slowest velocity that I can get the Hornady Ballistic Calculator to calculate a Carcano bullet’s trajectory is 600 feet per second. At that velocity (due to gravity and the resistance of the air) the barrel would need to be aimed 48.92” above the target to hit it at a distance of 58-yards (the approximate distance from the sixth floor window to JFK at Z224). Does anyone really believe that this is what actually happened? If so, please explain your position.

I do plan to read Landis’ book when it becomes available. Mostly because I have in the past enjoyed reading the accounts of the people who were there. Landis’ outlandish story regarding finding a bullet on the top of the back seat of the limo and placing it on the hospital stretcher is just not believable. But maybe his story includes some other information that might be interesting.

[Jon Banks]

I do plan to read Landis’ book when it becomes available. Mostly because I have in the past enjoyed reading the accounts of the people who were there. Landis’ outlandish story regarding finding a bullet on the top of the back seat of the limo and placing it on the hospital stretcher is just not believable. But maybe his story includes some other information that might be interesting.

Parkland nurse, Phyllis Hall, was there on 11/22/63.

She said she saw a bullet on JFK's stretcher (she saw the governor enter the ER as well but mentioned nothing about seeing a bullet on his stretcher). That independently corroborates Landis' story (assuming he wasn't aware of her statement before 2014).

(She mentions the bullet at 2:08 into the video)


I'm inclined to believe Landis is telling the truth as he remembers that day even if some specific details may be wrong.

I also don't believe the official story of how CE399 was discovered fwiw.

[Charles Collins]

Parkland nurse, Phyllis Hall, was there on 11/22/63.

She said she saw a bullet on JFK's stretcher (she saw the governor enter the ER as well but mentioned nothing about seeing a bullet on his stretcher). That independently corroborates Landis' story (assuming he wasn't aware of her statement before 2014).

(She mentions the bullet at 2:08 into the video)


I'm inclined to believe Landis is telling the truth as he remembers that day even if some specific details may be wrong.

I also don't believe the official story of how CE399 was discovered fwiw.

I noticed Phyllis Hall said she saw what she described as an exit wound in JFK’s throat. That would make the shallow back of neck wound theory invalid. Also, she said that she hasn’t seen a photo of the bullet she claims to have seen on the stretcher. Has she seen a photo of CE399 and does she claim the bullet she saw was different? If so, her account definitely does not cooborrate Landis’ outlandish story.

[Jon Banks]

I noticed Phyllis Hall said she saw what she described as an exit wound in JFK’s throat. That would make the shallow back of neck wound theory invalid. Also, she said that she hasn’t seen a photo of the bullet she claims to have seen on the stretcher. Has she seen a photo of CE399 and does she claim the bullet she saw was different? If so, her account definitely does not cooborrate Landis’ outlandish story.

Reading between the lines:

- Hall accepted the official narrative and is not a conspiracy theorist. Nor was she a trauma doctor. Which makes her statement more believable. She didn't have an agenda. She just reported what she observed.


However, on 11/23/63, Parkland doctor, Malcolm Perry, said Kennedy's neck wound was an "entry wound":

A newsman asked Perry: "Where was the entrance wound?"

Perry: "There was an entrance wound in the neck..."

Question: Which way was the bullet coming on the neck wound?  At him?"

Perry: "It appeared to be coming at him."...

Question: "Doctor, describe the entrance wound. You think from the front in the throat?"

Perry: "The wound appeared to be an entrance wound in the front of the throat; yes, that is correct.  The exit wound, I don't know. It could have been the head or there could have been a second wound of the head. There was not time to determine this at the particular instant."[66] (emphasis added)

https://www.history-matters.com/essays/jfkmed/How5Investigations/How5InvestigationsGotItWrong_1b.htm


Of course, we know that Perry later changed his mind. Changing one's mind is perfectly fine with the LN'er crowd when witnesses changed their minds in favor of the official narrative.

[Jim Hawthorn]

There's something not right here. Do y'all really think it's credible that a Secret Service agent would put such an immensely valuable piece of evidence on a hospital stretcher?  - where it could have easily gone unnoticed momentarily and dropped off, rolled under a cupboard, been fingered, stolen as a souvenir?
Following professional protocol, he would immediately have pocketed the bullet, then submitted it to be bagged as crucial evidence.

So, the discovery of the bullet on the stretcher points more to an "amateur" plant.

[Ted Shields]

Common sense time - why would "they" put this crucial piece of evidence on the wrong stretcher?