Is the amount of effort to link Oswald to Hidell believable?

[John Mytton]

Didn't you already post this rot in a different thread?

Why yes, yes I did.

After all you were the one who inspired me to write this piece in the first place.

And even after I posted a stack of examples which all required mass fakery, letter perfect forgery, planting evidence in non connected locations and a multitude of lies, you still nonsensically ask "you still cannot demonstrate that Oswald ever used Hidell as an alias for himself", geez John, you're absolutely wedded to the concept of conspiracy yet like Martin you claim you aren't one.
But if it looks like a duck, waddles like a duck and quacks like a duck then it's probably just an unbiased fence sitter!

JohnM

[John Mytton]

Researcher Greg Parker has an interesting theory and that is that Oswald had no knowledge of the upcoming murder. In other words he was completely innocent and the reason why he was murdered was not to shut him up about what he knew about the plot, but just to shut him up. I've thought about this and I agree with this now.

I also believe he WAS being manipulated but unknowingly about the murder itself. I believe he was a [very] low-level agent doing "intelligence" about Communists. Thus, the handing out of the leaflets in NO, getting on TV later about it and looking proudly as he explains who he is, and so on. Doing this allowed him to be photographed where his head could later be put onto the BYP. His alias was also a ruse. Doing this showed him to be a rabid Marxist and so on.

This all started, too, the moment he did the fake defection, then returned. There are others out there who we've never heard from again who also did this kind of thing. Robert Webster was another of them.

He asks a co-worker what the commotion was. When he was told the President is coming, he says "oh." He later says in front of TV cameras that the only reason why he was arrested was because he lived in Russia, then went on to say he was a patsy.

He stated the BYP were fake, with his head pasted. He said he'd be able to show how that could be done [because after all, he worked at a photo place].

He supposedly kills the president but has no grand getaway plan. He supposedly sticks around the building, is dismissed from work, walks over to catch a cab home, gives it up for a lady, takes the bus home, changes his clothes, then takes this long roundabout walk where he supposedly is confronted by Tippit, where he guns him down. Then he goes to the theater. The "6 foot 160 lb" description goes out within 15 minutes of the murder. How do they know this so soon? And it's not even accurate, far from it.

Researcher Greg Parker has an interesting theory and that is that Oswald had no knowledge of the upcoming murder.

I think that's kinda right, Oswald had no knowledge of the upcoming murder right up until the 19th when the parade route was put on the front page of the Dallas Times Herald, and only then did Oswald start thinking about his plan and even up until the night before, I believe there was still a chance that he could pull out, but after being rejected by Marina and, well, the rest is history.



"Mr. RANKIN. And how did he show that he was upset?
Mrs. OSWALD. He was upset over the fact that I would not answer him. He tried to start a conversation with me several times, but I would not answer. And he said that he didn't want me to be angry at him because this upsets him.
On that day, he suggested that we rent an apartment in Dallas. He said that
he was tired of living alone and perhaps the reason for my being so angry was the fact that we were not living together. That if I want to he would rent an apartment in Dallas tomorrow--that he didn't want me to remain with Ruth any longer, but wanted me to live with him in Dallas.
He repeated this not once but several times, but I refused. And he said that once again I was preferring my friends to him, and that I didn't need him."

Thus, the handing out of the leaflets in NO, getting on TV later about it and looking proudly as he explains who he is, and so on.

Imo he was proud because his dream was potentially(to him) becoming a reality, he was starting to be someone, perhaps one day a great famous leader!

Doing this allowed him to be photographed where his head could later be put onto the BYP.

I have attempted many composites and it's not easy finding suitable matching body parts with the right lighting, right film stock, right film grain, etc etc, or just look at the awful examples where famous faces are composited, or look at the obviously fake Ruby and Nixon photo.

This all started, too, the moment he did the fake defection, then returned.

I reckon Oswald sincerely believed that being a communist was a better way of life, read the "Oswald historic diaries" which shows over time his increasing disillusionment.
https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh16/pdf/WH16_CE_24.pdf

A brief excerpt.

He stated the BYP were fake, with his head pasted. He said he'd be able to show how that could be done [because after all, he worked at a photo place].

As I stated above, it ain't easy creating a composite photo and besides a backyard photo negative exists and a tell tale indication of fakery is grain irregularity and the film grain is consistent across the entire image.

The "6 foot 160 lb" description goes out within 15 minutes of the murder.

JohnM

[Rick Plant]

Researcher Greg Parker has an interesting theory and that is that Oswald had no knowledge of the upcoming murder. In other words he was completely innocent and the reason why he was murdered was not to shut him up about what he knew about the plot, but just to shut him up. I've thought about this and I agree with this now.

What are your thoughts on Jack Ruby?   

[John Iacoletti]

And even after I posted a stack of examples which all required mass fakery, letter perfect forgery, planting evidence in non connected locations and a multitude of lies, you still nonsensically ask "you still cannot demonstrate that Oswald ever used Hidell as an alias for himself", geez John, you're absolutely wedded to the concept of conspiracy yet like Martin you claim you aren't one.

And therein lies your fatal flaw. None of your false dichotomies “require” anything of the kind. You can either prove your claims or you cannot. And you cannot.

[John Iacoletti]

I think that's kinda right, Oswald had no knowledge of the upcoming murder right up until the 19th when the parade route was put on the front page of the Dallas Times Herald, and only then did Oswald start thinking about his plan and even up until the night before, I believe there was still a chance that he could pull out, but after being rejected by Marina and, well, the rest is history.

Cool fantasy story, bro.

[John Mytton]

And therein lies your fatal flaw. None of your false dichotomies “require” anything of the kind. You can either prove your claims or you cannot. And you cannot.

You can either prove your claims

Prove to who? YOU? You can't be serious!

In the past, I have naively asked, "beyond the literal mountain of evidence that already exists that links Oswald to the rifle order what more evidence should be presented to prove Oswald purchased and possessed the rifle and I was told, when the evidence is presented they will let me know. I should have known better than to ask an unreasonable CT for a reasonable answer.

JohnM

[Richard Smith]

As I have been saying for some time, only Oswald would order his rifle through an alias because setting up Oswald through his real name is far far easier and much more logical, because why on Earth invent an extra step which leads away from your Patsy?

Way back in March63 when Oswald ordered and was photographed with his rifle, Oswald was planning on using the rifle to assassinate General Walker a month later.
In the weeks between his purchase and the attempt, Oswald took surveillance photos of the side of the Walker residence where the attempt took place, a photo of a fence where Oswald was going to steady his rifle, had a map where X marks the spot, and besides the attempt itself Oswald told Marina specific details like the night of church gatherings. Oswald thought of himself as some sort of clandestine spy on a mission, yet still Oswald was clearly thinking this through up to the point where he pulled the trigger, and he even wrote a note for Marina where he guides her through the immediate aftermath and he says "If I am alive and captured..." indicating that he expected a shoot out with the Cops, similarly in the Texas Theatre Oswald put this "suicide by cop" into action when he pulled the trigger of his revolver.

Anyway, the point of this thread is to show you dear reader that the amount of effort and planning to link the alias Hidell with the person Oswald was an effort of enormous magnitude and required forgery, planting evidence in obscure places and a stack of lies. This sequence of inconceivable events I doubt would even be contemplated by a fiction author like Ian Fleming or Robert Ludlum, because of the absurd unbelievability, yet almost 60 years later the mind of an ever increasingly desperate conspiracy theorist who believes anything and I mean anything is possible, just take it all in their stride. -sigh-
 

It was either Oswald or;

The Hidell ID was manufactured by conspirators
The Hidell ID was planted by the Police
The Hidell ID negatives were manufactured by conspirators
The Hidell ID negatives were planted by conspirators in the Paine residence
The Hidell name was inserted by conspirators into the New Orleans post box application records.
The Hidell name was connected To Oswald's New Orleans Chapter of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee by conspirators.
The Hidell name was used as The "Chapter President" of Oswald's made up Cuba Committee by conspirators.
The Hidell name was forged by conspirators onto Oswald's "Fair Play for Cuba" leaflets
The Hidell name was written on membership cards by conspirators other than Marina, who must have lied.
The Hidell name was a play on "Fidel" according to Marina who must have lied
The Hidell name was forged onto the Kliens coupon
The Hidell Kleins coupon addressed to Oswald was forged onto the Kliens microfilm
The Hidell name was forged onto the Kleins envelope
The Hidell Kleins Envelope addressed to Oswald was forged onto the Kleins microfilm
The Hidell name on on the Kleins Coupon found by Waldman on the night following the assassination was forgotten?
The Hidell rifle was never sent to Oswald's PO box
The Hidell newly manufactured microfilm was substituted at some point with Kleins business records microfilm.
The Hidell ID was admitted by Oswald or Police lied
The Hidell ID was admitted by Oswald or a Postal official lied
The Hidell ID was asked of Oswald or an FBI agent lied
The Hidell name was forged onto Oswald Job applications as a reference
The Hidell rifle was photographed with Oswald by either forgery or trickery
The Hidell rifle was planted on the 6th floor of Oswald's work by conspirators
The Hidell revolver coupon was forged by conspirators
The Hidell name was forged onto the Seaport-Traders paperwork
The Hidell revolver was lied about by the Police
The Hidell revolver was substituted by Police
And on and on it goes!

Looking at this mountain of evidence that links Hidell with Oswald and I ask even the most sceptical to consider that each step needs to be either planned, forged, planted and then lied about, and then take the time to contemplate if this mass co-ordination of deception is even possible in our Real World?

I rest my case!

JohnM

Great post.  And why go through all this as part of any plan to frame Oswald?  Why not just use his real name on all the documents linking him to the guns?  It would have served the same purpose from the conspirator's perspective to link Oswald to specific weapons.  There is no need to manufacturer an alias to accomplish that purpose.  In contrast, if Oswald ordered these guns in contemplation of using them for a crime (as we know he did), he had every incentive to use an alias as a means to muddy the connection.  The contrarians stupidly equate these two very different situations as though they are the same.  As a part of a plan to frame Oswald via establishing a connection to the name used to order the weapons, an alias is unnecessary, risky and complicated.  As part of Oswald's own effort to conceal his connection to the guns, it useful, not risky and easy to accomplish.  Was it perfect?  No.  In part because Oswald stupidly kept the Hidell ID and he had to have a way to obtain the guns when they were shipped to him.  So he had to use an address that was associated with himself.  But he had nothing to lose by using an alias.   Contrarians can't accept the logic of the obvious when it comes to any situation that lends itself to Oswald's guilt.