David Von Pein's "evidence" deconstructed

[Bill Chapman]

Bentley didn’t come downstairs from the balcony until after the struggle started. If this is true then McDonald’s account was wrong.

Bentley didn’t come downstairs from the balcony until after the struggle started.
_ He saw the struggle just as he entered the lower floor

If this is true then McDonald’s account was wrong.
_Just declaring that is insufficient. You need to at least provide a cite.

[Tom Scully]

Says you. That’s yet another thing you cannot demonstrate is actually true because the police (either out of malice or sheer incompetence — and it doesn’t matter which) completely mishandled the evidence. By the way, when Oswald was (illegally and without probable cause) arrested, the alleged revolver was allegedly in the alleged possession of the alleged Bob Carroll.

Shells don’t kill people. You don’t know what the “Tippit murder weapon” was because the bullets removed from Tippit did not have sufficient characteristics to identify a specific weapon.

And correction: the shells that you cannot demonstrate were ever at Tenth and Patton or related to Tippit’s murder were matched conclusively to a revolver that you cannot demonstrate was ever in Oswald’s possession.

Two interviews of Nick McDonald, 40 years apart.

In this first excerpt, recorded in 2003, McDonald names three others who surrounded Oswald during his apprehension but does not mention Det. Paul Bentley. He does recount disarming Oswald and passing the revolver to Bob Carroll, after describing in depth grabbing the revolver as the trigger was pulled and attempting to stop the cylinder before getting pinched in the fleshy area between his index finger and thumb by the firing pin, saving his own life.

In the second, recorded on 11/23/63, McDonald is interviewed alongside and alternately with Bentley but the video begins with an excerpt of Bentley the day before, in which Bentley's description of a hand cushioning the fire pin gives the impression it was his hand, not McDonald's making it even odder that McDonald does not mention at all the firing pin injury his 2003 interview emphasizes! This 12 min. video conducted over two days ends with a second appearance by McDonald in that video. McDonald barely mentions how Oswald had come to the attention of a Theatre employee but does admit to arriving with only a minimal description of a suspect.

2003 @ Sixth Flr Museum :
https://jfk.emuseum.com/objects/24693/m-nick-mcdonald-oral-history

11/22 & 11/23/63 :

[Tom Scully]

Bentley didn’t come downstairs from the balcony until after the struggle started.
_ He saw the struggle just as he entered the lower floor

If this is true then McDonald’s account was wrong.
_Just declaring that is insufficient. You need to at least provide a cite.

Watch the youtube video because that isn't the way Bentley recounts it, on the same day and on the next day, unless
he is using "we," in a misleading way, and McDonald does not contradict Bentley on 11/23/63 by mentioning his hand getting pinched by the revolver's firing pin, at all. Yet in 2003, that was the point in his under 3 min. recount that he emphasizes most prominently!

In favor of your argument, though, is that in 2003 McDonald names officers who almost immediately surround Oswald on both sides and to his rear that assisted in subduing him and none was Bentley.

[David Von Pein]

@Tom Scully....

In the lengthy Bugliosi excerpt you provided from 5/24/07, where's the relevant remark that Bill Chapman alluded to earlier? I sure don't see anything of the kind in there.

[John Iacoletti]

"The police completely mishandled the evidence."

That's utter B.S.

Not BS at all. Sham lineups. Shells with missing initials, no documented chains of custody, bags missing from crime scene photos, a partial palmprint that shows up a week later on an index card, a gun that sits in a cops pocket for two hours and is left sitting on a desk before anybody initials it. Civilians tampering with and taking evidence from unsecured crime scenes, Evidence sitting on tables on top of other evidence contaminating each other. The question should be, is there anything they actually handled appropriately?

Yeah, sure, John. Why would the cops have any reason at all to want to arrest sweet lil' Lee? All he was doing in the theater is trying to shoot some policemen with a gun. That's all. They should have pinned a medal on him instead.

I guess you learned sarcasm as a substitute for a valid argument from Vince too. First of all, you don’t know that Lee “tried to shoot some policeman with a gun” in the theater. Once again, you are mistaking assumption for fact. How many is this now? Second of all, he wasn’t arrested for that. The arrest report clearly states that he was arrested for murder. There was zero probable cause at the time of his arrest for that. Or even for searching him. He looked funny to a shoe salesman.

CTers love to pretend that ALL THAT MATTERS is whether the BULLETS themselves could be matched up with the gun (which, of course, firearms expert Joe Nicol DID do with one of the four Tippit bullets).

WC evangelists love to ignore the 7 other firearms experts who said that it couldn’t be uniquely matched.

The CTers will always completely disregard and throw in the trash the bullet SHELLS

And what is your basis for assuming (there you go again) that the shells in evidence (you know, like the ones Poe told the FBI he marked JMP, but it wasn’t there) contained the bullets that killed Tippit? Just because you want to believe that?

which were definitively tied to Oswald's V510210 revolver

“Oswald’s V510210 revolver“. LOL.

In order for the above batch of claptrap to be true, you'd have to believe the Dallas Police lied their eyes out concerning the origins of the 4 bullet shells found by Benavides and the two Davis girls on Nov. 22.

How would the Dallas police even know the origins of shells handed to them by civilians? Or even that the shells that the FBI examined were the same shells? Especially the supposed “Benavides shells”.

And you'd have to believe the DPD also lied about the gun that Oswald had in his possession when he was arrested.

How would McDonald know that the gun he initialed hours later in the personnel office was the same gun he said he grabbed from Oswald?  And no other cop had any first hand knowledge of any gun being in Oswald’s belt. There’s that pesky evidence mishandling and chain of custody problems again.

Many CTers believe that Oswald had NO GUN at all in the theater, and they believe the DPD merely "planted" the Smith & Wesson V510210 revolver into the evidence pile connected with Tippit's murder. Which would mean that somebody also had to fake the whole Seaport Traders paper trail that shows that Oswald was the owner of said gun.

BS. There no “paper trail” showing any ownership or even possession. There’s a document showing an alleged order by a Hidell and an address of a box that Oswald had access to.

[David Von Pein]

To quote from some of Richard Smith's recent posts....

Wow!

John Iacoletti is now running neck-and-neck with James R. Gordon of The Education Forum for first place in the "CTers In Total Denial" race.

At the rate Iacoletti is charging forward, he'll be in first place by himself by noon tomorrow.

Stay tuned!

[Tom Scully]

@Tom Scully....

In the lengthy Bugliosi excerpt you provided from 5/24/07, where's the relevant remark that Bill Chapman alluded to earlier? I sure don't see anything of the kind in there.

Hey, David!

Sorry if it turns out to be irrelevant but I thought there was at least a 50/50 chance that is where Chapman got his impression and mistook what Vince was saying, for exaggeration.

I hope I can help with this. I've only been into this with any depth since the year before I joined the Ed Forum on 01/01/08. Before that, I was too busy living to dwell on my most traumatic sixth grade memory.
I didn't view "JFK: The Movie," until the 50th, in 2013... maybe that is what is "wrong" with me!

I think you know from our shared experience on the Money Order with Lance in 2015 that I am not wedded to Oswald's innocence.

I do find the revolver rounds and the bus transfer still in Oswald's pocket a couple of hours after his arrest quite odd, as well as the delay in DPD sending all of the empty revolver hulls to the FBI, but most of all it intrigues the s**t out of me that I was able to prove both Virginia Davis and taxi driver Whaley lied about their age, along with Gladys Johnson's excuse for why she let Earline Roberts go, at least twice, and Roberts and the Johnson couple being so off in their perceptions of when Det. Potts arrived at their N. Beckley rooming house.

Virginia's sister-in-law, Barbara Davis, emphasized that unlike Virginia, she saw almost nothing supporting Virginia's
observations of the alleged revolver wielding suspect in their yard. Her husband's (Troy) brother, 27 year old Charlie Davis,
had married 15 year old Virginia that spring and brought her from Paris, TX to Dallas.

BTW, here is the reply I got from the digital "keeper" of Whaley's grave site, when I requested, with the proof I provided,
that he correct Whaley's birth year from 1905 to 1908.:

on 13 Sep 2021

William Whaley (13730776)  https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/13730776/william-wayne-whaley
"I added a note about birth year.

It's tricky when there is an error on the marker itself. If I change the DOB, then everyone will start sending in a correction because the marker says 1905.

--Bob"

My comment to you, David = LOL !

[John Iacoletti]

Bentley didn’t come downstairs from the balcony until after the struggle started.
_ He saw the struggle just as he entered the lower floor

The struggle was over the gun after McDonald grabbed Oswald’s hand over the gun and yanked it out (according to scripture). If the struggle had already started then the gun was out. That’s what McDonald and every other cop on the main floor said.