Next to Oswald's Rifle

[Walt Cakebread]

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I believe these pics were taken late on the 22nd, just before Drain took the items off to Washington. They were taken by SA John Doyle Williams. They were released with the cover sheet description below but I can't find a reference to the hand drawn picture next to the rifle:

I believe these pics were taken late on the 22nd, just before Drain took the items off to Washington. They were taken by SA John Doyle Williams. They were released with the cover sheet description below but I can't find a reference to the hand drawn picture next to the rifle:

I'm sure that your correct, Dan.... Yo da man, Dan!! .   

That photo has always intrigued me.... What was the purpose of the sketch of the man in the photo??

The photo had to have been taken AFTER Lee Oswald was in the custody of the DPD, so if that sketch was supposed to be of the owner of the rifle, it wouldn't have made sense to pose a sketch,  because they could have used a photo of Lee and there would have been no need for a sketch...  ( the sketch doesn't look like Lee Oswald anyway.  )  Sooooo  WHO is this guy???  As Michael  said the sketch has a very strong resemblance to  " the "Spanish boy " ( Cuban ?) .   

[Walt Cakebread]

                                          11 - 22 - 63
1940 Made
  In Italy                                 Dallas

              6.5 CAL   C2766

                  Scope                  4 x 18
                                                                     Coated
Hollywood Calif.

ORDINANCE
   OPTICS INC                                                                        JDW
                                                                            [??] too small for me to make out]

I've seen the initials JDW on another photo of the shells being handed over to Vince Drain.
I believe it's an FBI agent called Williams but will have to double check.

What do you make of the difference between the numeral "2" in the photo .....  In the upper numeral the "2" looks like it was originally a numeral "1" but it was altered to make the 1 look like a numeral 2.  Notice the "2" in the rifle serial number C2766.

 

[Dan O'meara]

I believe these pics were taken late on the 22nd, just before Drain took the items off to Washington. They were taken by SA John Doyle Williams. They were released with the cover sheet description below but I can't find a reference to the hand drawn picture next to the rifle:

I'm sure that your correct, Dan.... Yo da man, Dan!! .   

That photo has always intrigued me.... What was the purpose of the sketch of the man in the photo??

The photo had to have been taken AFTER Lee Oswald was in the custody of the DPD, so if that sketch was supposed to be of the owner of the rifle, it wouldn't have made sense to pose a sketch,  because they could have used a photo of Lee and there would have been no need for a sketch...  ( the sketch doesn't look like Lee Oswald anyway.  )  Sooooo  WHO is this guy???  As Michael  said the sketch has a very strong resemblance to  " the "Spanish boy " ( Cuban ?) .   

The photo had to have been taken AFTER Lee Oswald was in the custody of the DPD,

If the photo of the rifle was taken around the same time as the one of the shells it had to be taken some time between 10:00PM and 11:45PM on the night of the assassination.
Note in the pic of the shells - the two hulls are a darker colour than the live round. The darker colour is caused by the dusting powder Day used to look for prints but the live round is clean, even though Day testified to having used the black powder on this as well.

Oswald had been in custody for hours by this point and was already being viewed as the sole assassin of JFK so the "artist's sketch" is a mystery indeed. As I say, I can find no reference to it as part of the evidence being taken by the FBI but it is there in the photo, so what gives with that? It really is baffling.

[Dan O'meara]

What do you make of the difference between the numeral "2" in the photo .....  In the upper numeral the "2" looks like it was originally a numeral "1" but it was altered to make the 1 look like a numeral 2.  Notice the "2" in the rifle serial number C2766.

I don't think there's too much to it. SA Williams wasn't the greatest when it came to writing big numerals, although he does do a far better job of it in the picture with the shells.

[Walt Cakebread]

I don't think there's too much to it. SA Williams wasn't the greatest when it came to writing big numerals, although he does do a far better job of it in the picture with the shells.

Question:.....   Could the authorities have had the rifle on 11-11-63 and took the photo at that time?    That might explain the altering of the numeral "1'" and it could explain the sketch of the "suspect"..... 

[Dan O'meara]

Question:.....   Could the authorities have had the rifle on 11-11-63 and took the photo at that time?    That might explain the altering of the numeral "1'" and it could explain the sketch of the "suspect".....

To be honest Walt, I really can't see the conspirators dating a picture of the rifle 11 days before the assassination.
It's just a poorly made sign. If they needed to change the numerals they would've just changed the sign.

[Walt Cakebread]

To be honest Walt, I really can't see the conspirators dating a picture of the rifle 11 days before the assassination.
It's just a poorly made sign. If they needed to change the numerals they would've just changed the sign.

Ok, Dan, thanks for your input.....   But I continue to suspect that there's something not right about that photo.

And now let's shift gears.....   You posted the FBI photos of TWO tarnished rifle shells and a live round.....  I'd bet that they only had TWO spent shells on the evening of 11/22/63.....    Because the plot called for just two shots to be accounted for, but when the majority of witnesses swore that there were ay least THREE shots fired the conspirators were compelled to produce a third spent shell..... And I'm sure you know that one of the spent shells was scratched by the rifle's elevator ( that would mean that it was the last cartridge in the clip and the live round was NOT served into the bolt and breech by the rifle's elevator. 

[Walt Cakebread]

upload img

I believe these pics were taken late on the 22nd, just before Drain took the items off to Washington. They were taken by SA John Doyle Williams. They were released with the cover sheet description below but I can't find a reference to the hand drawn picture next to the rifle:

FBI agent Doyle Williams said that he received TWO spent rifle shells and a live cartridge from the DPD on the evening of 11/22/63.   This is the evidence that was being sent to the FBI lab in Washington DC .....  They had only TWO spent shells at that time.

Also notice that in Williams description of the rifle he does NOT identify it as a Mannlicher Carcano.  The reason that he didn't identify it as a carcano is because it was such an unusual rifle that very few knew anything about the rifle.   They learned the name of the rifle Saturday morning, and therefore in reports written after 11/22/63 the rifle is referred to as a "Carcano".    This seemingly insignificant fact is a very important indicator as to the date the report was written.    As you've said, Dan, .... The evidence list that was prepared on 11/22/63 lists only TWO spent shells and the rifle is NOT referred to as a "carcano".  THIS IS IMPORTANT!