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Author Topic: Brown/Weidmann, Mini-Debate?  (Read 34707 times)

Offline Bill Brown

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Re: Brown/Weidmann, Mini-Debate?
« Reply #104 on: April 30, 2022, 12:02:24 AM »
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I guess that's a No then.

Where did i say that? I told you to get back to me when you've learned how to debate.

You've presented nothing of substance in a mini-debate.

If you say so....  :D    So, that's why you couldn't counter anything I have said? Got it!

You shouldn't be expected to produce anything of substance if you had to think on the go in a live debate.

Who said that a live debate would require the participants to "think on the go"? Where do you get this crap?

But you're boring me and your feeble attempt to save face by trying to bait me isn't working. Declare yourself the winner if your ego needs that, but for now I have had more than enough of your childish nonsense.

Now, shall we sit back and let the others voice their opinions?

I'm not declaring myself the winner; that's your thing.

Look, this is real simple.  I asked if you want to do some sort of a live debate this week.  You don't want to.  I get it.

Yes, others should feel free to post their thoughts, if they wish.  Unlike you, I am open to constructive criticism.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2022, 12:11:08 AM by Bill Brown »

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Re: Brown/Weidmann, Mini-Debate?
« Reply #104 on: April 30, 2022, 12:02:24 AM »


Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: Brown/Weidmann, Mini-Debate?
« Reply #105 on: April 30, 2022, 05:09:09 AM »
Callaway told us what he did
Oswald got what he deserved

POW!
« Last Edit: April 30, 2022, 05:32:11 AM by Bill Chapman »

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Brown/Weidmann, Mini-Debate?
« Reply #106 on: April 30, 2022, 06:00:17 AM »
Evidence please that 602 was “trying to contact the dispatcher to tell him they were en route to the hospital” when he just said “602” and the dispatcher didn’t respond.

“Dale Myers thinks so” is not evidence.

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Re: Brown/Weidmann, Mini-Debate?
« Reply #106 on: April 30, 2022, 06:00:17 AM »


Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: Brown/Weidmann, Mini-Debate?
« Reply #107 on: April 30, 2022, 02:17:48 PM »

Offline Bill Brown

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Re: Brown/Weidmann, Mini-Debate?
« Reply #108 on: May 02, 2022, 01:26:27 AM »
Just something to check out for those who have never heard...


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Re: Brown/Weidmann, Mini-Debate?
« Reply #108 on: May 02, 2022, 01:26:27 AM »


Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Brown/Weidmann, Mini-Debate?
« Reply #109 on: May 02, 2022, 05:19:07 AM »
Just something to check out for those who have never heard...


Two comments;

The segment we have been discussing in this thread starts with Bowley's call at 57:28

This recording runs a little bit faster than the one I have used, but the difference during the entire approx 3 minutes segment is only 2 seconds.

The key times are:

57:28:67 Bowley starts his call
58:14:42 Bowley ends his call (being told to stay of the radio)

58:24:35 Ambulance 602 calls Code 5 (en route)
58:41:85 Ambulance 602 calls Code 6 (for wrong location at Jefferson)
58:48:40 Ambulance 602 asks dispatcher for address on Jefferson - Dispatcher replies: 501 Tenth Street
59:02:85 Ambulance 602 calls Code 6 (for arrival at Tippit scene)

59:30:99 Ambulance 602 tries to get attention of the dispatcher by calling "602"

59:40:98 Callaway starts his call

59:42:85 Ambulance 602 tries again to get the attention of the dispatcher by calling "602"

I should note that there are marginal differences between the times I used earlier in the thread, as they were clocked with a stopwatch, and these more accurate ones, that were obtained by using Wavelab.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2022, 09:20:17 PM by Martin Weidmann »

Online Mitch Todd

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Re: Brown/Weidmann, Mini-Debate?
« Reply #110 on: May 02, 2022, 05:47:12 AM »
I was being generous.  I too believe that Callaway got to the scene no more than three to four minutes after hearing the shots.

No need to be generous. I am actually convinced that Callaway got to the scene in a little less than three minutes. The reason why I am convinced is that, some years ago, I actually walked and ran the distance that the killer and Callaway walked and ran and I found I could be done in three minutes. Having said this, you are now talking about a wider subject than when Callaway helped to load Tippit into the ambulance. Let's try to resolve that first, shall we?

Here's the thing... He makes his report on Tippit's squad car radio at 1:19/1:20.

I don't believe for a second that the times on the DPD transcripts are correct, making it erroneous to rely on them for anything.  I have an audio recording that starts when Bowley makes his call and ends 4.27 min later. To the best of my knowledge it's a continuous recording. Now, here's the thing; Bowley's call lasted 48 seconds. Exactly 12 seconds later ambulance 602 reports "code 5" confirming it's departure from the funeral home.

According to the official narrative, the Funeral Home received the call for an ambulance at 1:18, but only 20 seconds after 602's code 5 call the DPD dispatcher (who did not call 1:18) calls out "10-4, 603 and 602. 1:19". Now, how is that possible?
If we assume that Bowley started making his call at exactly 1:17:00, the time sequence described above doesn't get us beyond the 1:18:20 mark. However, if Bowley started making his call at around 1:17:40, that would explain the 40 seconds gap, but it would also reduce the time the ambulance had to get to the scene by 40 seconds.

Then, exactly 40 seconds after his initial call the dispatcher calls out "10-4, 605. 1:19", which seems to fit the timeline far better as, according to the actual recording, that second call is made roughly 2 minutes after Bowley started to make his radio call at 1:17. It is however only 6 seconds before Callaway gets on the DPD radio.

So, the first thing we need to resolve is which is the correct 1:19 call. This is important because the 40 seconds between the first and the second call makes all the difference for determining the correct sequence of events, as I will show later on in this discussion. One thing we can safely rule out, based on the actual recordings is, IMO, that Callaway made his call at or after the 1:20 mark.

Do you have an opinion about which 1:19 call is the correct one?
So now that the big show is is over....

This is what I have for the timing of the two "1:19" calls with respect to the Bowley transmission. If I arbitrarily assign the Bowley transmission at +0:00 minutes, then the first "1:19" comes in at  +1:16 and he second one comes in at +1:56. The two 1:19 calls are 40 seconds apart. What we can get from this is that it's safe to assume that 1:19:30PM on the dispatchers clock occurred between the two 1:19 timestamps, since the interval between the two timestamps is greater than 30 seconds.

At this point, we consider two cases.

The first is that the first timestamp happened at 1:19:00PM . Then the second one would have occurred at 1:19:40. Therefore, 1:19:30PM would be 10 seconds before the second timestamp in this case. This is the upper limit for 1:19:30.

The second case puts the second timestamp at 1:19:59PM (and we'll round up one second to 1:20:00 just to make things look neater). In this case, the first timestamp would be at 1:19:20PM. In this case, 1:19:30 would be 10 seconds after the first timestamp.

Plugging this back into the Ch 1 recording run time, we get:

+0:00   Hello, police operator....
+1:16   1:19 #1
+1:26   Lower limit for 1:19:30PM
+1:46   Upper limit for 1:19:30PM
+1:56   1:19#2

It's probably better just to say that 1:19:30 occurs at +1:36 +/10 seconds after the beginning of the Bowley call. That would put 1:18:00PM at +0:06  +/- 0:10. Or, the Bowley transmission begins at 1:17:54PM +/- 10 seconds. It could be as early as 1:17:44 and as late as 1:18:04.

Having said that, I should add that Callaway hits the air at +2:12 after the beginning of Bowley's transmission. That would put the Callaway transmission at at 1:20:06PM again +/- 10 seconds.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2022, 06:10:54 AM by Mitch Todd »

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Re: Brown/Weidmann, Mini-Debate?
« Reply #110 on: May 02, 2022, 05:47:12 AM »


Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: Brown/Weidmann, Mini-Debate?
« Reply #111 on: May 02, 2022, 11:33:22 AM »
So now that the big show is is over....

This is what I have for the timing of the two "1:19" calls with respect to the Bowley transmission. If I arbitrarily assign the Bowley transmission at +0:00 minutes, then the first "1:19" comes in at  +1:16 and he second one comes in at +1:56. The two 1:19 calls are 40 seconds apart. What we can get from this is that it's safe to assume that 1:19:30PM on the dispatchers clock occurred between the two 1:19 timestamps, since the interval between the two timestamps is greater than 30 seconds.

At this point, we consider two cases.

The first is that the first timestamp happened at 1:19:00PM . Then the second one would have occurred at 1:19:40. Therefore, 1:19:30PM would be 10 seconds before the second timestamp in this case. This is the upper limit for 1:19:30.

The second case puts the second timestamp at 1:19:59PM (and we'll round up one second to 1:20:00 just to make things look neater). In this case, the first timestamp would be at 1:19:20PM. In this case, 1:19:30 would be 10 seconds after the first timestamp.

Plugging this back into the Ch 1 recording run time, we get:

+0:00   Hello, police operator....
+1:16   1:19 #1
+1:26   Lower limit for 1:19:30PM
+1:46   Upper limit for 1:19:30PM
+1:56   1:19#2

It's probably better just to say that 1:19:30 occurs at +1:36 +/10 seconds after the beginning of the Bowley call. That would put 1:18:00PM at +0:06  +/- 0:10. Or, the Bowley transmission begins at 1:17:54PM +/- 10 seconds. It could be as early as 1:17:44 and as late as 1:18:04.

Having said that, I should add that Callaway hits the air at +2:12 after the beginning of Bowley's transmission. That would put the Callaway transmission at at 1:20:06PM again +/- 10 seconds.

This is interesting
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/D%20Disk/Dallas%20Police%20Department/Dallas%20Police%20Department%20Records/Volume%2004/Item%2001.pdf

216 pages DPD radio transmissions
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