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Author Topic: Truly's False Roll  (Read 24139 times)

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Truly's False Roll
« Reply #128 on: March 16, 2022, 01:00:56 PM »
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Apologies Charles. I'd missed a couple of the earlier posts and you'd already answered the point I was driving at when you said:

I don’t believe that there necessarily was anything sinister about BRW’s early omissions regarding the sixth floor."

You acknowledge the early omissions I was trying to point out but you don't find anything sinister about them.
Fair enough.
It was also interesting to see you acknowledge the possibility that either Bonnie Ray saw the assassin or he had ESP. In the post I'm responding to you make the point that you "prefer to look at the evidence". I assume your evidence for BRW's ESP is solid so I won't pursue the matter.
I'm also a bit surprised at the faith you have in BRW's testimony considering you wrote this:

"I think that BRW’s memory wasn’t the greatest (just look at how many times he said he couldn’t remember things in his testimony)"

My favourite  part of that post was this:

"Also, I think that it is possible that he could have simply temporarily mentally blocked his presence on the sixth floor. Mental blocks are common when people experience things that they perceive as being very bad."

I wonder what he perceived as being so bad he mentally blocked it when he was interviewed by the DPD a couple of hours after the assassination. What do you think it was?
Again, I'm sure the evidence you have about BRW's mental block is rock solid and not just some nonsense you're plucking out of thin air.

When he uses the word "we" in his statement about riding the elevator he is referring to multiple people.
Whe he uses the word "I" he also uses the word "with", as in - I went back on the 5th floor with a fellow named Hank and Junior"
In this instance "with" is like an addition in maths:

 I (BRW) with (+) Norman and Jarman = 3 people together.

So when he arrives on the 5th floor he uses the word "we" [BRW + Jarman + Norman]
This is a lie Williams tells to the DPD hours after the assassination.
A lie. Not a mental blockage.


It was also interesting to see you acknowledge the possibility that either Bonnie Ray saw the assassin or he had ESP. In the post I'm responding to you make the point that you "prefer to look at the evidence". I assume your evidence for BRW's ESP is solid so I won't pursue the matter.

I know you are being sarcastic. (How's that for ESP?) When I say that I think something is possible I am usually engaging in conjecture. This was in response to Mytton's statement regarding his beliefs. I was only pointing out some other possibilities. By the way, conjecture doesn't require solid evidence.


You acknowledge the early omissions I was trying to point out but you don't find anything sinister about them.

Just point things like this out. No need to ask a bunch of questions. All you were trying to do was get an opinion from me so that you could attack it. (How's that for ESP?)


I wonder what he perceived as being so bad he mentally blocked it when he was interviewed by the DPD a couple of hours after the assassination. What do you think it was?
Again, I'm sure the evidence you have about BRW's mental block is rock solid and not just some nonsense you're plucking out of thin air.



Again, I was engaging in conjecture. You don't "know" what he perceived as bad?   ???  I am surprised! You act like you think you know all these other things that you think he meant to say (but didn't).

I will engage in a little more conjecture to give you an answer to your question, but it is only conjecture so save your silly sarcastic remarks about evidence. By the time BRW made his statement to the DPD, LHO had been arrested and brought in where BRW could see him. It is reasonable to believe that BRW had by then put two and two together and that he probably realized that LHO had fired the shots from the sixth floor. Just the realization that he (BRW) was on the sixth floor while eating his lunch just before the assassination could have been an extremely terrifying thing for BRW. So I think it is possible that he mentally blocked that realization. And if he heard, saw, or even "sensed" that there was someone else on the sixth floor with him, it could have made that realization even more terrifying. All of this conjecture is just that, conjecture. It is quite possible that BRW simply thought that he didn't need to put down where he ate his lunch in his statement.


When he uses the word "we" in his statement about riding the elevator he is referring to multiple people.
Whe he uses the word "I" he also uses the word "with", as in - I went back on the 5th floor with a fellow named Hank and Junior"
In this instance "with" is like an addition in maths:

 I (BRW) with (+) Norman and Jarman = 3 people together.

So when he arrives on the 5th floor he uses the word "we" [BRW + Jarman + Norman]
This is a lie Williams tells to the DPD hours after the assassination.
A lie. Not a mental blockage.



There is also another crucial word that BRW used in his statement to the DPD:

We went downstairs...

versus

I went back up on the fifth floor with...


He didn't say he went to the fifth floor with anybody. He said he went on the fifth floor. There is a difference. And, again, Mr. Ball and company asked enough questions to get clarifications. You can believe that your "interpretation" is correct. Nothing that I am going to say is likely to change your mind. But, again, you are only fooling yourself. You really don't have ESP, Mr Ball and company proved that by getting BRW to answer their questions.


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Re: Truly's False Roll
« Reply #128 on: March 16, 2022, 01:00:56 PM »


Online Charles Collins

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Re: Truly's False Roll
« Reply #129 on: March 16, 2022, 03:53:36 PM »
By the time BRW made his statement to the DPD, LHO had been arrested and brought in where BRW could see him. It is reasonable to believe that BRW had by then put two and two together and that he probably realized that LHO had fired the shots from the sixth floor. Just the realization that he (BRW) was on the sixth floor while eating his lunch just before the assassination could have been an extremely terrifying thing for BRW. So I think it is possible that he mentally blocked that realization.

Fascinating, the exact same thing happened to Marrion Baker.

Luckily, months later the WC managed to unblock him!

ROFLMAO


Your response is a good example of why people need to ask questions. No one knows WTF you are talking about.

Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: Truly's False Roll
« Reply #130 on: March 16, 2022, 09:53:22 PM »
  Truly had a memorable encounter with Oswald just after the assassination.  He saw a police officer pull a gun on Oswald while in search of the assassin 
Wrong, the gun was out already according to Baker.
Quote
Mr. BAKER - I had my revolver out.
Mr. BELIN - When did you take your revolver out?
Mr. BAKER - AS I was starting up the stairway.
I guess we see how words matter. Everybody has a chance to be wrong.
 
Quote
Mr. TRULY-  When I reached there, the officer had his gun pointing at Oswald.
I now acknowledge that Mr Williams said that he ate his lunch on the 6th floor about the 3rd or 4th set of windows.
But what I can't understand is how around that 12 o'clock time according to testimony, there is an alleged presence on the 6th floor involving Charles Givens, Bonnie Ray Williams and Lee Oswald except Williams didn't seem to hear the other two. 
Quote
It is reasonable to believe that BRW had by then put two and two together and that he probably realized that LHO had fired the shots from the sixth floor. Just the realization that he (BRW) was on the sixth floor while eating his lunch just before the assassination could have been an extremely terrifying thing for BRW. So I think it is possible that he mentally blocked that realization.
Another resident psychoanalyst ::)
 

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Re: Truly's False Roll
« Reply #130 on: March 16, 2022, 09:53:22 PM »


Online Charles Collins

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Re: Truly's False Roll
« Reply #131 on: March 16, 2022, 10:21:38 PM »
I guess we see how words matter. Everybody has a chance to be wrong.
 I now acknowledge that Mr Williams said that he ate his lunch on the 6th floor about the 3rd or 4th set of windows.
But what I can't understand is how around that 12 o'clock time according to testimony, there is an alleged presence on the 6th floor involving Charles Givens, Bonnie Ray Williams and Lee Oswald except Williams didn't seem to hear the other two.  Another resident psychoanalyst ::)


But what I can't understand is how around that 12 o'clock time according to testimony, there is an alleged presence on the 6th floor involving Charles Givens, Bonnie Ray Williams and Lee Oswald except Williams didn't seem to hear the other two.


If you show us what specific testimony you are referring to, perhaps someone can psychoanalyze it for you.

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Truly's False Roll
« Reply #132 on: March 16, 2022, 11:01:12 PM »
I'll admit it was directed toward those who really know the evidence, no wonder it went over your head.

Marvin Johnson, who took Baker's affidavit, has a direct quote by Baker in his report stating he recognized Oswald as the guy he stopped on the 4th floor, yet this was left out of Bakers affidavit.

Get it now?

Here's a link to Marrion Baker's affidavit of 11/22/63:

https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/baker_m3.htm

I don't see where Marvin Johnson had anything to do with it. And I don't see any correlation to what I said about BRW and the sixth floor. Like I said, no one knows WTF you are talking about.

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Re: Truly's False Roll
« Reply #132 on: March 16, 2022, 11:01:12 PM »


Online Charles Collins

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Re: Truly's False Roll
« Reply #133 on: March 16, 2022, 11:34:09 PM »
Baker, ”mentally blocked”.

What's missing in his affidavit?

Try one more time.


Stop trying to be cryptic. You tell us.

Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: Truly's False Roll
« Reply #134 on: March 17, 2022, 12:36:38 AM »
Quote
what I can't understand is how around that 12 o'clock time according to testimony, there is an alleged presence on the 6th floor involving Charles Givens, Bonnie Ray Williams and Lee Oswald except Williams didn't seem to hear the other two. 
                                                                                                   Jerry Freeman

If you show us what specific testimony you are referring to, perhaps someone can psychoanalyze it for you.
I'll try [this one time]  :)

Quote
Mr. McCLOY. What time of day was this, when you were eating your lunch?
Mr. WILLIAMS. About 12.
Mr. McCLOY. Just 12?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir.
  https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/givens1.htm
Quote
Mr. BELIN. When did you see Lee Harvey Oswald next?
Mr. GIVENS. Next?
Mr. BELIN. Yes.
Mr. GIVENS. Well, it was about a quarter till 12, we were on our way downstairs, and we passed him, and he was standing at the gate on the fifth floor.
I came downstairs, and I discovered I left my cigarettes in my jacket pocket upstairs....
 I took the elevator back upstairs to get my jacket with my cigarettes in it. When I got back upstairs, he was on the sixth floor in that vicinity, coming from that way.
Mr. BELIN. Coming from what way?
Mr. GIVENS. Toward the window up front where the shots were fired from.
Mr. BELIN. Just a second, where did you go? Where were you when you saw him on the sixth floor?
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/givens1.htm

I don't believe either one told the truth.
 

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Re: Truly's False Roll
« Reply #134 on: March 17, 2022, 12:36:38 AM »


Online Charles Collins

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Re: Truly's False Roll
« Reply #135 on: March 17, 2022, 01:56:20 AM »
                                                                                                   Jerry Freeman
I'll try [this one time]  :)
  https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/givens1.htmhttps://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/givens1.htm

I don't believe either one told the truth.


Based on their testimonies, it appears to me that:

1. Givens went back to the sixth floor to get his cigarettes and saw LHO at about 11:55.

2. Then BRW arrived back on the sixth floor after Givens had gone back down (about 12:00).

3. BRW ate his lunch on the sixth floor but testified that he didn't see or hear LHO.

So why is it that you believe that both Givens and BRW didn't tell the truth?