Why classify information?

[Martin Weidmann]

And you actually believe yours is a cogent response knowing the totality of the evidence against Oswald. This is why after 58 years you conspiracy folks have no case for conspiracy. You’re never honest about the known evidence. So, who owns the rifle being held by Oswald in the b/y photos?

So, you don't want to answer my question? Why not... It's straight forward one!

So, who owns the rifle being held by Oswald in the b/y photos?

I have no idea and neither do you. You can only assume Oswald owned the rifle, but the photos themselves do not tell you that in any way shape or form.

If you disagree, then please tell me how you can conclude ownership of that rifle by looking at a photo?

Because that's what you said, right?

The b/y photos by themselves prove Oswald owned and possessed the murder weapon found at the scene of the crime. This is 58 year old documented evidence. The conspiracy crowd can no longer dispute this evidence, yet they try. Why? No idea.

[Richard Smith]

Bla bla bla... When are you going to stop reciting your superficial take on the evidence and become a bit more curious?

Wait... I forgot for a second that I am talking to Richard "Mr. Neutral" Smith. Forget I asked.....

Why does a photocopy of the document cast any doubt on its authenticity?

Why am I not surprised you are asking such a pathetically stupid question.

Waldman himself confirmed it came from Klein's records.

No. Waldman confirmed that the document was an internal Klein's document, but he never saw the original of this particular document. All he did and could do, some 6 months after the assassination, was that the "order blank" form was a document used. What he could not do is confirm that the handwritten content of the document was authentic.

There is absolutely no reason to doubt that this document is authentic.

BS.. If photocopies are deemed to be authentic, why does the FBI have a special questioned documents department? Or are you merely saying that only this photocopy is authentic? And if you are, on what do you base that opinion?

What it tells us is that a specific rifle was sent to the PO Box belonging to Oswald and the serial number confirms that it is the same rifle found at TSBD.

It tells us no such thing.

Fired bullet casings from that rifle were found by the window from which witnesses saw a rifle at the moment of the assassination.

Are those the ones Fritz picked up, or the ones he threw down in the sniper's nest?

There is no doubt that this rifle belonged to Oswald and that it was used to assassinate JFK. 

There most certainly isn't any doubt about the fact that you are (or at least pretend to be) a gullible fool.

Btw you asked me to explain what evidence is lacking from the record that would satisfy me of Oswald's ownership of the rifle.
I gave you two examples. As expected you dismissed out of hand the first one (no surprise there) but you completely ignore the second one. Why is that?

Paul, you really disappoint me. The BY photos do not prove ownership of any rifle, let alone a rifle found at the crime scene.
I was once photographed holding a rifle, which belonged to a friend. By your "logic" I would now be the owner of that rifle, right? Well, if that's the case, what if I let myself be photographed next to an expensive car, does that car become my property?

If the answers to both my questions is "no", then please explain why the answer would be "yes" in Oswald's case?

You can tell Martin is starting to panic when he resorts to personal insults.  No answer for why a photocopy casts any doubt on its authenticity under the circumstances.  We know how the Klein's documents were discovered.  That process allowed for no opportunity for fabrication.  The FBI discovered by 10PM that Klein's had handled this rifle.  They got Waldman to accompany them to his Chicago office where the records were kept.  Mitchell Scibor, the general operating manager, searched Klein's records.  Around midnight they confirm this is a rifle they handled.  They continue to search their own microfilm records until about 4AM when Scibor finds the documents that confirm this rifle was ordered by someone named "Hidell" and sent to a Dallas PO Box.  How would any conspirator fake these documents and insert them into Klein's microfilm records before midnight on Nov. 22?  Waldman is present when the search of these records is undertaken.  His employee finds them.  Unless these are fake, it confirms that a specific rifle was sent to the PO Box belonging to LHO.  We also know that fired bullet casings from this rifle are found at the crime scene.  This specific rifle is left at the crime scene.  It is not linked to anyone else.  Only Oswald.  It doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to conclude what happened.  Unfortunately, we are dealing with Inspector Clouseau.

[Martin Weidmann]

You can tell Martin is starting to panic when he resorts to personal insults.  No answer for why a photocopy casts any doubt on its authenticity under the circumstances.  We know how the Klein's documents were discovered.  That process allowed for no opportunity for fabrication.  The FBI discovered by 10PM that Klein's had handled this rifle.  They got Waldman to accompany them to his Chicago office where the records were kept.  Mitchell Scibor, the general operating manager, searched Klein's records.  Around midnight they confirm this is a rifle they handled.  They continue to search their own microfilm records until about 4AM when Scibor finds the documents that confirm this rifle was ordered by someone named "Hidell" and sent to a Dallas PO Box.  How would any conspirator fake these documents and insert them into Klein's microfilm records before midnight on Nov. 22?  Waldman is present when the search of these records is undertaken.  His employee finds them.  Unless these are fake, it confirms that a specific rifle was sent to the PO Box belonging to LHO.  We also know that fired bullet casings from this rifle are found at the crime scene.  This specific rifle is left at the crime scene.  It is not linked to anyone else.  Only Oswald.  It doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to conclude what happened.  Unfortunately, we are dealing with Inspector Clouseau.

You can tell Martin is starting to panic when he resorts to personal insults.

 

No answer for why a photocopy casts any doubt on its authenticity under the circumstances.

That's an easy one. A photocopy is far easier to manipulate than an original. Btw can I pick up your car tomorrow with a photocopied document of sale carrying your signature?

We know how the Klein's documents were discovered.  That process allowed for no opportunity for fabrication.

That's probably true, but they did not need such an opportunity. The agents took the microfilm and it wasn't until May 20th 1964 that Waldman and Scibor saw a copy of Waldman 7 again. Six months is a long time to remember every little detail on a form.

The FBI discovered by 10PM that Klein's had handled this rifle.  They got Waldman to accompany them to his Chicago office where the records were kept.  Mitchell Scibor, the general operating manager, searched Klein's records.  Around midnight they confirm this is a rifle they handled.  They continue to search their own microfilm records until about 4AM when Scibor finds the documents that confirm this rifle was ordered by someone named "Hidell" and sent to a Dallas PO Box.

Of course they found those documents, but if you read Scibor's testimony carefully, you will notice that what he found on 11/22/63 was a Klein's "order blank" form with a handwritten serial and control number on it. There is no mention of Hidell's name being on that particular form. What is amazing is that Belin asked Scibor if he had any supervision or control over the people making the entries of the serial and control numbers;

Mr. SCIBOR. Those are notations strictly for the receiving department. I have the men back there keep these in rotation so that I can always fill--in the same rotation as they come out of.
Mr. BELIN. And did you do any of that writing at all?
Mr. SCIBOR. No.
Mr. BELIN. What is the fact as to whether or not these serial numbers are assigned by people under your supervision?
Mr. SCIBOR. Repeat that.
Mr. BELIN. Well, do you have any supervision or control over the people making the entries on the serial numbers and your control numbers?
Mr. SCIBOR. Yes.

and when he said "Yes", Belin did not ask any further about who those men were. Instead he cut off his line of questioning and started asking Scibor about his background. It's a classic lawyer trick when they get an answer they dont expect or want to hear.

How would any conspirator fake these documents and insert them into Klein's microfilm records before midnight on Nov. 22?  Waldman is present when the search of these records is undertaken.

Already answered.

Unless these are fake, it confirms that a specific rifle was sent to the PO Box belonging to LHO.

What are fake? The documents found by Scibor on 11/22/63 or the copies presented to him and Waldman on 05/20/64? Did you ever learn that the best lie is the one that stays as close to the truth as possible?

It doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to conclude what happened.  Unfortunately, we are dealing with Inspector Clouseau.


You can tell Martin Richard is starting to panic when he resorts to personal insults.

[Mitch Todd]

Of course they found those documents, but if you read Scibor's testimony carefully, you will notice that what he found on 11/22/63 was a Klein's "order blank" form with a handwritten serial and control number on it. There is no mention of Hidell's name being on that particular form. What is amazing is that Belin asked Scibor if he had any supervision or control over the people making the entries of the serial and control numbers;

Mr. SCIBOR. Those are notations strictly for the receiving department. I have the men back there keep these in rotation so that I can always fill--in the same rotation as they come out of.
Mr. BELIN. And did you do any of that writing at all?
Mr. SCIBOR. No.
Mr. BELIN. What is the fact as to whether or not these serial numbers are assigned by people under your supervision?
Mr. SCIBOR. Repeat that.
Mr. BELIN. Well, do you have any supervision or control over the people making the entries on the serial numbers and your control numbers?
Mr. SCIBOR. Yes.

The excerpt quoted from Scibor's testimony is referring to Waldman exhibit  4 (part of the shipment record of the Carcanos received from Crescent Firearms), not Waldman exhibit 7 (the Klein's "order blank"). If we properly quote Scibor's testimony, we get this:

Mr. BELIN. I notice the date and the notations in the upper lefthand corner, RR-1243; underneath that, the date 2-22-63. Do you know what that has reference to?
Mr. SCIBOR. Yes; the "RR" stands for receiving record No. 1243, and that merchandise was booked or actually received by our receiving-department on 2-22-63.
Mr. BELIN. Does it show from whom it was received?
Mr. SCIBOR. Yes; Crescent Firearms.
Mr. BELIN. And underneath the "Crescent Firearms," what does it say?
Mr. SCIBOR. Italian Carcano T38, 6.5 Italian caliber rifle.
Mr. BELIN. Now, there are some notations in the upper righthand corner, what does that have reference to?
Mr. SCIBOR. Those are notations strictly for the receiving department. I have the men back there keep these in rotation so that I can always fill--in the same rotation as they come out of.
Mr. BELIN. And did you do any of that writing at all?
Mr. SCIBOR. No.
Mr. BELIN. What is the fact as to whether or not these serial numbers are assigned by people under your supervision?
Mr. SCIBOR. Repeat that.
Mr. BELIN. Well, do you have any supervision or control over the people making the entries on the serial numbers and your control numbers?
Mr. SCIBOR. Yes.

The "RR-1243" and "2-22-63" are found on Waldman 4, but not Waldman 7.

[Martin Weidmann]

The excerpt quoted from Scibor's testimony is referring to Waldman exhibit  4 (part of the shipment record of the Carcanos received from Crescent Firearms), not Waldman exhibit 7 (the Klein's "order blank"). If we properly quote Scibor's testimony, we get this:

Mr. BELIN. I notice the date and the notations in the upper lefthand corner, RR-1243; underneath that, the date 2-22-63. Do you know what that has reference to?
Mr. SCIBOR. Yes; the "RR" stands for receiving record No. 1243, and that merchandise was booked or actually received by our receiving-department on 2-22-63.
Mr. BELIN. Does it show from whom it was received?
Mr. SCIBOR. Yes; Crescent Firearms.
Mr. BELIN. And underneath the "Crescent Firearms," what does it say?
Mr. SCIBOR. Italian Carcano T38, 6.5 Italian caliber rifle.
Mr. BELIN. Now, there are some notations in the upper righthand corner, what does that have reference to?
Mr. SCIBOR. Those are notations strictly for the receiving department. I have the men back there keep these in rotation so that I can always fill--in the same rotation as they come out of.
Mr. BELIN. And did you do any of that writing at all?
Mr. SCIBOR. No.
Mr. BELIN. What is the fact as to whether or not these serial numbers are assigned by people under your supervision?
Mr. SCIBOR. Repeat that.
Mr. BELIN. Well, do you have any supervision or control over the people making the entries on the serial numbers and your control numbers?
Mr. SCIBOR. Yes.

The "RR-1243" and "2-22-63" are found on Waldman 4, but not Waldman 7.

And where is the Hidell reference?

[Mitch Todd]

And where is the Hidell reference?

You don't know?

[Jack Nessan]

Yes, you stand corrected about the claim that there was any kind of match, let alone to the exclusion of all other rifles. It just didn't happen. At best they could have matched the shells to the rifle, but that's it.

Do you believe the assassination took place earlier and was just staged to look like it took place on the 22nd?

What in the world are you babbling about?

The rifle found on the 6th floor was found to have had LHO's palm print on the barrel.

That's a gross misrepresentation of the facts. The rifle found at the TSBD was examined by the FBI lab in Washington within 24 hours after the crime. They found nothing, not even a trace of a print.

Then, about a week later, Lt Day suddenly produced an evidence card allegedly containing Oswald's palmprint, which he claimed  he had taken of the rifle on 11/22/63 and then kept it, without mentioning it to anyone for a whole week.

The rifle that was used to assassinate JFK.

And how do you know that the rifle found on the 6th floor was in fact the one used to assassinate JFK?

Bullets or bullet fragments can not be matched to any weapon and despite your claim they never were. Shells can be matched, but the fact that Fritz compromised the crime scene by picking up shells and then throwing them back, means that if the rifle was planted so could the shells be.

Now, before you get this wrong; I am not claiming that the rifle and shells were planted. I am merely saying that it is possible that they were, which, by itself, makes it impossible to claim with any kind of certainty that the rifle was actually used in the assassination.

Numerous ballistics experts from both the FBI and HSCA inquiry identify the rifle found on the 6th floor as being the weapon that had been fired during the assassination to "the exclusion of all others". LHO's palm print was found on the barrel of the rifle discovered on the 6th floor. LHO's prints were found on the bag discovered in the SN. LHO's prints were on the boxes used to make the rifle rest. LHO's PO Box was used as the delivery point for the rifle. The alias used to purchase the rifle was on an indentity card in his possession when arrested. LHO was known to possess this rifle and had already attempted to murder another individual earlier. LHO has no alibi during the assassination and also told Postal Inspector Holmes he came down to the second floor after the assassination.

Your answer to all this information is just you don't know but you don't think so. It is kind of like the Adams and Styles nonsense where you unwittingly and unknowingly produced a WC statement from Officer Barnett that proved Adams and Styles did not leave as quickly as they thought, and you were just wrong about all of it.