U.S. Politics

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Online Tom Graves

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #4120 on: Today at 03:31:16 AM »
Nixon was completely paranoid and formed an illegal group called The Plumbers to go after political enemies.

History 101:

The reason Nixon formed The Plumbers was because a Kremlin-loyal KGB officer at the FBI's NYC field office, Major Aleksey Kulak -- J. Edgar Hoover's shielded-from-CIA FEDORA -- told him that the Kremlin had a complete copy of The Pentagon Papers (it didn't).

ME: Did the Kremlin acquire a complete copy of The Pentagon Papers before Nixon formed The Plumbers?

GROK: No, there is no credible evidence that the Kremlin (or Soviet Embassy) acquired a complete copy of the full classified Pentagon Papers before—or even around the time—Nixon formed the White House Plumbers (officially the White House Special Investigations Unit).

Key timelines

Pentagon Papers leak and publication: Daniel Ellsberg provided portions of the ~7,000-page classified study (officially "United States–Vietnam Relations, 1945–1967") to The New York Times, which began publishing excerpts on June 13, 1971. The Washington Post followed on June 18. A temporary restraining order against the Times was issued around June 15.

Plumbers' formation: The unit was created in direct response to the leak, established within a week of the June 13 publication (so by roughly June 20, 1971, per historical accounts). Some sources place related staffing or operations in July (e.g., Egil Krogh’s involvement around July 20), but the unit’s purpose—to plug leaks and investigate the Pentagon Papers disclosure—began immediately after the public revelations.

The Soviet claim

The only reference to a Soviet “complete set” comes from a 1973 Washington Post report (cited in contemporary coverage). It alleged that, in June 1971 (after the Times restraining order), an unidentified man using an alias handed the Soviet Embassy in Washington a full set of the top-secret documents.

The Soviet Embassy immediately and explicitly denied this on June 5, 1973, calling it “a fabrication” unrelated to improving U.S.–Soviet relations.

The story appears to have stemmed from FBI information tied to a supposed source in the KGB. However, the FBI later determined this source [Kulak / FEDORA] was fake or unreliable (detailed in a 1981 Washington Post article).

No declassified U.S., Soviet, or independent archival evidence has ever confirmed that the full classified study reached Moscow via this (or any other) channel in June 1971. The published newspaper excerpts were publicly available worldwide after June 13, but the complete 47-volume classified version is a different matter.

Context and why the claim doesn’t hold

The Nixon administration’s extreme reaction to the leak (including forming the Plumbers, the Ellsberg psychiatrist break in, and eventual Watergate ties) was driven by paranoia about further leaks and domestic political damage—not by any verified foreign acquisition. Nixon and aides viewed the leak as potentially aiding adversaries like the Soviets or Chinese, but their internal discussions and later investigations never treated a pre-Plumbers Soviet copy as a confirmed fact.

In short, the June 1971 Soviet Embassy story was a single, unverified (and denied) press report based on flawed intelligence. It does not establish that the Kremlin obtained the complete papers before the Plumbers existed. The full Pentagon Papers were not officially declassified until 2011.

ME: Did KGB Major Aleksey Kulak at the FBI's NYC field office mislead Hoover and Nixon into believing that it had?

GROK: Yes, according to declassified accounts and the FBI’s own later assessment, KGB officer Aleksey (Aleksei) Isidorovich Kulak—codename “Fedora” (sometimes referred to as a major or colonel)—was the source of the specific claim that a complete set of the classified Pentagon Papers had been delivered to the Soviet Embassy in Washington in June 1971.

Kulak had first volunteered to the FBI’s New York field office in March 1962 while serving under UN diplomatic cover as a KGB scientific/technical officer. The FBI ran him for over a decade (with a second New York tour beginning in 1971) as one of its most valued Bureau sources on Soviet operations. FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover and the Nixon White House treated his reporting as highly credible.

The 1971 Pentagon Papers claim

During the height of the public furor over the New York Times and Washington Post publications (mid-June 1971 onward), Kulak/Fedora informed his FBI handlers that an unidentified man had handed the full 47-volume classified study to the Soviet Embassy. The FBI passed this to the White House. Nixon administration officials (including those overseeing the legal effort to block further publication) and the FBI accepted it as factual, heightening official paranoia about foreign exploitation of the leak. This occurred in the same weeks the White House Plumbers unit was being stood up to investigate and plug leaks.

CIA Director Richard Helms, however, privately discounted the report when briefing a Plumbers official. He told David R. Young (one of the unit’s chiefs) that the CIA knew the source and had “doubts about them.”

FBI’s later conclusion: disinformation.

By the mid-1970s the FBI had grown suspicious that Kulak was a KGB-controlled double agent feeding false information. A full re-evaluation after his 1976 return to Moscow (where he declined a CIA exfiltration offer) led the Bureau to conclude by 1981 [sic; in 1976 according to former CIA officer Tennent H. Bagley; this determination was overturned by counterintelligence-hating James Geer in the FBI around 1983 with help from CIA "analysts" provided to him by probable "mole" Leonard V. McCoy, Deputy Chief of CIA Counterintelligence] that Fedora had been “always on the Soviets’ side.” The Pentagon Papers story was cited as a prime example of the disinformation he supplied. No independent U.S., Soviet, or archival evidence has ever corroborated that the Kremlin actually received the full classified set via the Embassy at that time.

In short: Kulak did mislead Hoover’s FBI and the Nixon White House into believing the Kremlin had obtained the complete papers. The information was treated as genuine at the highest levels in mid-1971 precisely because it came from a long-trusted FBI asset—who was later judged to have been a Soviet plant all along. This episode contributed to the atmosphere of suspicion that surrounded the leak response, even though the core claim proved unfounded.

« Last Edit: Today at 03:52:47 AM by Tom Graves »

Online Tom Graves

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #4121 on: Today at 04:31:27 AM »
History 101:

The reason Nixon formed The Plumbers was because a Kremlin-loyal KGB officer at the FBI's NYC field office, Major Aleksey Kulak -- J. Edgar Hoover's shielded-from-CIA FEDORA -- told him that the Kremlin had a complete copy of The Pentagon Papers (it didn't).

ME: Did the Kremlin acquire a complete copy of The Pentagon Papers before Nixon formed The Plumbers?

GROK: No, there is no credible evidence that the Kremlin (or Soviet Embassy) acquired a complete copy of the full classified Pentagon Papers before—or even around the time—Nixon formed the White House Plumbers (officially the White House Special Investigations Unit).

Key timelines

Pentagon Papers leak and publication: Daniel Ellsberg provided portions of the ~7,000-page classified study (officially "United States–Vietnam Relations, 1945–1967") to The New York Times, which began publishing excerpts on June 13, 1971. The Washington Post followed on June 18. A temporary restraining order against the Times was issued around June 15.

Plumbers' formation: The unit was created in direct response to the leak, established within a week of the June 13 publication (so by roughly June 20, 1971, per historical accounts). Some sources place related staffing or operations in July (e.g., Egil Krogh’s involvement around July 20), but the unit’s purpose—to plug leaks and investigate the Pentagon Papers disclosure—began immediately after the public revelations.

The Soviet claim

The only reference to a Soviet “complete set” comes from a 1973 Washington Post report (cited in contemporary coverage). It alleged that, in June 1971 (after the Times restraining order), an unidentified man using an alias handed the Soviet Embassy in Washington a full set of the top-secret documents.

The Soviet Embassy immediately and explicitly denied this on June 5, 1973, calling it “a fabrication” unrelated to improving U.S.–Soviet relations.

The story appears to have stemmed from FBI information tied to a supposed source in the KGB. However, the FBI later determined this source [Kulak / FEDORA] was fake or unreliable (detailed in a 1981 Washington Post article).

No declassified U.S., Soviet, or independent archival evidence has ever confirmed that the full classified study reached Moscow via this (or any other) channel in June 1971. The published newspaper excerpts were publicly available worldwide after June 13, but the complete 47-volume classified version is a different matter.

Context and why the claim doesn’t hold

The Nixon administration’s extreme reaction to the leak (including forming the Plumbers, the Ellsberg psychiatrist break in, and eventual Watergate ties) was driven by paranoia about further leaks and domestic political damage—not by any verified foreign acquisition. Nixon and aides viewed the leak as potentially aiding adversaries like the Soviets or Chinese, but their internal discussions and later investigations never treated a pre-Plumbers Soviet copy as a confirmed fact.

In short, the June 1971 Soviet Embassy story was a single, unverified (and denied) press report based on flawed intelligence. It does not establish that the Kremlin obtained the complete papers before the Plumbers existed. The full Pentagon Papers were not officially declassified until 2011.

ME: Did KGB Major Aleksey Kulak at the FBI's NYC field office mislead Hoover and Nixon into believing that it had?

GROK: Yes, according to declassified accounts and the FBI’s own later assessment, KGB officer Aleksey (Aleksei) Isidorovich Kulak—codename “Fedora” (sometimes referred to as a major or colonel)—was the source of the specific claim that a complete set of the classified Pentagon Papers had been delivered to the Soviet Embassy in Washington in June 1971.

Kulak had first volunteered to the FBI’s New York field office in March 1962 while serving under UN diplomatic cover as a KGB scientific/technical officer. The FBI ran him for over a decade (with a second New York tour beginning in 1971) as one of its most valued Bureau sources on Soviet operations. FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover and the Nixon White House treated his reporting as highly credible.

The 1971 Pentagon Papers claim

During the height of the public furor over the New York Times and Washington Post publications (mid-June 1971 onward), Kulak/Fedora informed his FBI handlers that an unidentified man had handed the full 47-volume classified study to the Soviet Embassy. The FBI passed this to the White House. Nixon administration officials (including those overseeing the legal effort to block further publication) and the FBI accepted it as factual, heightening official paranoia about foreign exploitation of the leak. This occurred in the same weeks the White House Plumbers unit was being stood up to investigate and plug leaks.

CIA Director Richard Helms, however, privately discounted the report when briefing a Plumbers official. He told David R. Young (one of the unit’s chiefs) that the CIA knew the source and had “doubts about them.”

FBI’s later conclusion: disinformation.

By the mid-1970s the FBI had grown suspicious that Kulak was a KGB-controlled double agent feeding false information. A full re-evaluation after his 1976 return to Moscow (where he declined a CIA exfiltration offer) led the Bureau to conclude by 1981 [sic; in 1976 according to former CIA officer Tennent H. Bagley; this determination was overturned by counterintelligence-hating James Geer in the FBI around 1983 with help from CIA "analysts" provided to him by probable "mole" Leonard V. McCoy, Deputy Chief of CIA Counterintelligence] that Fedora had been “always on the Soviets’ side.” The Pentagon Papers story was cited as a prime example of the disinformation he supplied. No independent U.S., Soviet, or archival evidence has ever corroborated that the Kremlin actually received the full classified set via the Embassy at that time.

In short: Kulak did mislead Hoover’s FBI and the Nixon White House into believing the Kremlin had obtained the complete papers. The information was treated as genuine at the highest levels in mid-1971 precisely because it came from a long-trusted FBI asset—who was later judged to have been a Soviet plant all along. This episode contributed to the atmosphere of suspicion that surrounded the leak response, even though the core claim proved unfounded.

Yep, the KGB*, the same folks who, along with GRU and Putin's professional St. Petersburg trolls, installed Donald Trump as our "president" on 20 January 2017.

*Today's SVR and FSB
« Last Edit: Today at 08:53:51 AM by Tom Graves »

Online John Corbett

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #4122 on: Today at 11:38:35 AM »
Yep, the KGB*, the same folks who, along with GRU and Putin's professional St. Petersburg trolls, installed Donald Trump as our "president" on 20 January 2017.

*Today's SVR and FSB

That is a truly bizarre theory. It's amazing what TDS can do to a person's mind.

Online Tom Graves

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #4123 on: Today at 11:49:39 AM »
It's amazing what TDS can do to a person's mind.

It's a pity that you're so in love with Trump's Diminutive Shank, Corbett.

Online John Corbett

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #4124 on: Today at 12:11:24 PM »
It's a pity that you're so in love with Trump's Diminutive Shank, Corbett.

I guess all of us can just stay home during the 2028 election since Putin is going to pick our next President for us.

Online Tom Graves

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #4125 on: Today at 12:29:42 PM »
I guess all of us can just stay home during the 2028 election since Putin is going to pick our next President for us.

He doesn't need to, Corbett, because since the 1959 Master Plan has worked to perfection, irreparable damage has already been done to our country by The Traitorous Orange Bird (rhymes with "Xxxx"), the PayPal Mafia, Christian Nationalists, The Traitorous Orange Bird's (rhymes with "Xxxx's") own corrupt family, and oodles and gobs of zombified MAGATs like you.
« Last Edit: Today at 01:04:48 PM by Tom Graves »

Online Tom Graves

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #4126 on: Today at 01:05:37 PM »
I guess all of us can just stay home during the 2028 election since Putin is going to pick our next President for us.

Yes! Please do!

Online John Corbett

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Re: U.S. Politics
« Reply #4127 on: Today at 06:56:27 PM »
He doesn't need to, Corbett, because since the 1959 Master Plan has worked to perfection, irreparable damage has already been done to our country by The Traitorous Orange Bird (rhymes with "Xxxx"), the PayPal Mafia, Christian Nationalists, The Traitorous Orange Bird's (rhymes with "Xxxx's") own corrupt family, and oodles and gobs of zombified MAGATs like you.

This is as bizarre as any JFKA conspiracy theory I have ever come across.