Perception of Reality

[Dan O'meara]

This is part of Mary Woodward's initial recollection of the shooting:

"We had been waiting about half an hour when the first motorcycle escorts came by, followed shortly by the President’s car. The President was looking straight ahead and we were afraid we would not get to see his face. But we started clapping and cheering and both he and Mrs. Kennedy turned, and smiled and waved, directly at us… After acknowledging our cheers, he [JFK] faced forward again and suddenly there was a horrible, ear-splitting noise coming from behind us and a little to the right."

Two things to note:

1)   Both JFK and Jackie turn directly towards where Woodward is standing.
2)   The first shot occurs after JFK has faced forward again.

In the Towner film Jackie is looking off to her left as JFK waves, so Woodward is not referring to this wave.
In the Croft pic (@ z162) Jackie is still looking off to the left.
In the Z-film Jackie does not turn to her right until around z190 just after JFK looks to his right and starts waving. This is clearly the wave Woodward is referring to.
The first shot doesn't occur until JFK looks forward again, after z190.

This cannot be coherently disputed.

[Charles Collins]

Substantiation??
Myers reports a letter sent from Hughes to his parents:
"About 5 seconds after I quit taking the pictures we heard the shots..."
How can Hughes be reacting to a shot when the shots didn't start until about 5 seconds after he quit filming??
Towner reports she stopped filming on purpose and the Dorman film stops for 49 frames!! How is that a reflex reaction to hearing a shot?
Could your substantiation be any weaker?

What substantiation did you ask for? Dale Myers’ information. You have it now thanks to my efforts (not your own efforts). It confirms my claim. There are many conflicting accounts. I give more weight to the accounts that agree with the physical evidence including the photographic record. Many witnesses said that they didn’t initially recognize the first bang as a shot. It appears to me that Hughes was one of them. Yes Towner stopped filming on purpose. I never indicated otherwise. The significance is that she said the first shot sounded within a second or two (if that) after she stopped filming. There is no reason to believe that a long stoppage of 49 frames couldn’t be the result of a shot fired. The fact that there’s a similar one that coincides with the shot around z224 tells me that it simply took her a few seconds to  gain her composure and start filming again. There are a lot of people who practically jump out of their skin at the sound of sudden loud noise. Reactions vary from person to person. Zapruder was able to continue filming during at least two of the shots. But he was much further away from the rifle.

[Charles Collins]

This is part of Mary Woodward's initial recollection of the shooting:

"We had been waiting about half an hour when the first motorcycle escorts came by, followed shortly by the President’s car. The President was looking straight ahead and we were afraid we would not get to see his face. But we started clapping and cheering and both he and Mrs. Kennedy turned, and smiled and waved, directly at us… After acknowledging our cheers, he [JFK] faced forward again and suddenly there was a horrible, ear-splitting noise coming from behind us and a little to the right."

Two things to note:

1)   Both JFK and Jackie turn directly towards where Woodward is standing.
2)   The first shot occurs after JFK has faced forward again.

In the Towner film Jackie is looking off to her left as JFK waves, so Woodward is not referring to this wave.
In the Croft pic (@ z162) Jackie is still looking off to the left.
In the Z-film Jackie does not turn to her right until around z190 just after JFK looks to his right and starts waving. This is clearly the wave Woodward is referring to.
The first shot doesn't occur until JFK looks forward again, after z190.

This cannot be coherently disputed.

There is an advantage to having the stationary object (tree) for a reference. There’s no way Adams was referring to the same wave that you believe Woodward was describing. So, conflicting accounts (if one believes in your theory). I give more weight to the Adams account because the tree makes it more precise and less ambiguous.

[Dan O'meara]

What substantiation did you ask for? Dale Myers’ information. You have it now thanks to my efforts (not your own efforts). It confirms my claim. There are many conflicting accounts. I give more weight to the accounts that agree with the physical evidence including the photographic record. Many witnesses said that they didn’t initially recognize the first bang as a shot. It appears to me that Hughes was one of them. Yes Towner stopped filming on purpose. I never indicated otherwise. The significance is that she said the first shot sounded within a second or two (if that) after she stopped filming. There is no reason to believe that a long stoppage of 49 frames couldn’t be the result of a shot fired. The fact that there’s a similar one that coincides with the shot around z224 tells me that it simply took her a few seconds to  gain her composure and start filming again. There are a lot of people who practically jump out of their skin at the sound of sudden loud noise. Reactions vary from person to person. Zapruder was able to continue filming during at least two of the shots. But he was much further away from the rifle.

"It confirms my claim."

Hughes stating that the shots started 5 seconds after he stopped filming confirms your claim that he reacted to a shot during his filming??
Is that supposed to be a joke?

According to the Roberdeau map Hughes is stood well over 300 feet away from the TSBD at the time of the shots yet you still believe the sound of the shot was so loud it caused him to flinch??

There is a fine line between confirmation bias and delusion.

[Dan O'meara]

There is an advantage to having the stationary object (tree) for a reference. There’s no way Adams was referring to the same wave that you believe Woodward was describing. So, conflicting accounts (if one believes in your theory). I give more weight to the Adams account because the tree makes it more precise and less ambiguous.

From Vicki Adams' WC testimony:

Miss ADAMS. I watched the motorcade come down Main, as it turned from Main onto Houston, and watched it proceed around the corner on Elm, and apparently somebody in the crowd called to the late President, because he and his wife both turned abruptly and faced the building, so we had a very good view of both of them.

Both Woodward and Adams describe someone calling out to JFK and Jackie and both of them turn in response.

Both Woodward and Adams are describing exactly the same moment.
In both descriptions Jackie turns to her right in response to the call.

You are clearly wrong on this but you have nowhere to go. We are now moving out of the realm of confirmation bias and into flat out denial of the evidence.

[Charles Collins]

From Vicki Adams' WC testimony:

Miss ADAMS. I watched the motorcade come down Main, as it turned from Main onto Houston, and watched it proceed around the corner on Elm, and apparently somebody in the crowd called to the late President, because he and his wife both turned abruptly and faced the building, so we had a very good view of both of them.

Both Woodward and Adams describe someone calling out to JFK and Jackie and both of them turn in response.

Both Woodward and Adams are describing exactly the same moment.
In both descriptions Jackie turns to her right in response to the call.

You are clearly wrong on this but you have nowhere to go. We are now moving out of the realm of confirmation bias and into flat out denial of the evidence.

From Adams’ viewpoint, JFK disappeared behind the tree around z133. She couldn’t even see the occupants during the time period you claim this happened. How could she possibly describe something that she didn’t see? She is describing the actions that happened right in front of her and her building, and before they went behind the tree. It couldn’t possibly be any other way. Many, many people along the motorcade route thought that they looked “right at them” and waved to acknowledge them. In reality they smiled and waved hundreds of times throughout the parade. What is significant to me is that most of the occupants of the limo stopped smiling and waving for a short period and almost simultaneously jerked their heads right to left and back to the right in between the two waves we are discussing. It is apparent to me that they heard the first shot and quickly looked around. Nothing looked out of place (the shot missed). So, being “on stage” so to speak, they quickly resumed waving and smiling. Then the next shot happened…

[Dan O'meara]

I'm sure Woodward, who seemed to adore the Kennedys, felt she had made such a connection. The last bystanders Kennedy saw were more likely the Newman family or the men on the steps. The President seems to be peering at the Umbrella Man in Z225 and the Umbrella Man is standing well to the south of Woodward.

She must be talking about the first hand wave if she's correct about the Kennedys looking around as if bewildered after the first shot. The President turns his head rightward in the late-Z150s-to-early Z160s. Mrs. Kennedy turns her head rightward in the Z170s; Woodward probably could see some of Jackie's pillbox hat. That's the only time we know for sure the Kennedys looked around before they went behind the sign. When they emerge from behind the sign a second later, their heads are still as they were before they went behind the sign.

Who--among the witnesses reporting three distinct shots--said they saw Kennedy not smiling and waving after the first shot?

"Mrs. Kennedy turns her head rightward in the Z170s;"

This is very disingenuous of you Jerry.
Jackie begins to turn her head in the z170's but is not looking to her right until around z190.
Woodward states they were both looking directly in her direction which is only possible around z190.
Adams also states that both JFK and Jackie turn to their right  - not in response to a shot but to someone calling out to them.

Woodward - "But we started clapping and cheering and both he and Mrs. Kennedy turned, and smiled and waved, directly at us…"

Adams - "...somebody in the crowd called to the late President, because he and his wife both turned abruptly and faced the building..."

Adams is describing exactly the same moment Woodward is describing.
Both JFK and Jackie turn to face the people calling.
The only time this happens is when Jackie is facing right, @z190

LATER EDIT;

"The President turns his head rightward in the late-Z150s-to-early Z160s."

This has got nothing to do with the wave. It's got nothing to do with anything.
JFK does not respond to Woodward and co. calling out until @ z170