The lapel flip -- what did i miss?

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Offline Jack Nessan

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Re: The lapel flip -- what did i miss?
« Reply #147 on: June 10, 2025, 04:44:51 PM »
  Just stick to the Facts. The SCIENCE.

Facts are what? Knotts Lab recreation is a laughable joke, and you have done nothing to change that.

Online Andrew Mason

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Re: The lapel flip -- what did i miss?
« Reply #148 on: June 11, 2025, 05:59:54 PM »
Lend less credence to what people said and pay more attention to the conscious (i.e., not "startle") reactions of JFK, Jackie, JBC, Nellie Connally, Roy Kellerman, George Hickey, and Rosemary Willis to the sounds of the first, missing-everything shot at hypothetical "Z-124," i.e., half-a-second before Zapruder resumed filming at Z-133.
Translation:...more credence to guessing about what they are reacting and ignoring the evidence (if, indeed, they are reacting to anything). 
  • Nellie Connally said that she looked back at JFK after the first shot and never looked back after the second. She is looking back at JFK until about z270. So you guess she was wrong about that. 
  • Hickey said that he reacted by looking at the President and then turning around to the rear for several seconds before turning forward and watching the President when the last two shots were fired.   So you guess he was wrong about that.
  • Rosemary Willis said that she looked back at the TSBD upon hearing the first shot.  Her only turn of her head back to look at the TSBD is at z202-206.  So you guess she was wrong about that.

Online Andrew Mason

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Re: The lapel flip -- what did i miss?
« Reply #149 on: June 11, 2025, 06:10:31 PM »
If SBT is impossible, then explain the two shots. Can't?
There were three shots, and none missed. Easy to explain from the evidence:
  • The first shot just after z186 and just before z202 (Betzner and Willis, VP car occupants, VP security car occupants, actions of SA Ready and Rosemary Willis (head turn z202-206)). Also fits 1..........2.....3 shot pattern, which means JFK was necessarily hit by first shot.
  • Second shot just before Greer makes his first turn to the rear (seen turning at z280-283) and just after Hickey turns around to see JFK at the time of the second shot (he is still turned rearward in Altgens' #6 at z255), and just before he starts sailing forward and falling back onto Nellie.
  • Third shot z313.
Three shots. Three hits. One shooter.

Online Tom Graves

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Re: The lapel flip -- what did i miss?
« Reply #150 on: June 11, 2025, 08:11:20 PM »
There were three shots, and none missed. Easy to explain from the evidence:
  • The first shot just after z186 and just before z202 (Betzner and Willis, VP car occupants, VP security car occupants, actions of SA Ready and Rosemary Willis (head turn z202-206)). Also fits 1..........2.....3 shot pattern, which means JFK was necessarily hit by first shot.
  • Second shot just before Greer makes his first turn to the rear (seen turning at z280-283) and just after Hickey turns around to see JFK at the time of the second shot (he is still turned rearward in Altgens' #6 at z255), and just before he starts sailing forward and falling back onto Nellie.
  • Third shot z313.
Three shots. Three hits. One shooter.

Good one!

LOL!

Offline Jack Nessan

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Re: The lapel flip -- what did i miss?
« Reply #151 on: June 12, 2025, 02:41:33 AM »
There were three shots, and none missed. Easy to explain from the evidence:
  • The first shot just after z186 and just before z202 (Betzner and Willis, VP car occupants, VP security car occupants, actions of SA Ready and Rosemary Willis (head turn z202-206)). Also fits 1..........2.....3 shot pattern, which means JFK was necessarily hit by first shot.
  • Second shot just before Greer makes his first turn to the rear (seen turning at z280-283) and just after Hickey turns around to see JFK at the time of the second shot (he is still turned rearward in Altgens' #6 at z255), and just before he starts sailing forward and falling back onto Nellie.
  • Third shot z313.
Three shots. Three hits. One shooter.

It would be better if you would discuss these three shots three hits with Michael Griffith. He is all about this kind of thinking. You won’t have to prove anything to him. In fact, the weirder the better. 

Personally, I think it is as messed up as it gets.

 

Offline Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: The lapel flip -- what did i miss?
« Reply #152 on: June 12, 2025, 05:25:27 PM »
It would be better if you would discuss these three shots three hits with Michael Griffith. He is all about this kind of thinking. You won’t have to prove anything to him. In fact, the weirder the better. 

Personally, I think it is as messed up as it gets.
At this point after all of these investigations, the release of the documents, the passage of time, it seems obvious (even more now than before) that most of these conspiracy activists have an agenda where they use the assassination to express their grievances with some element of the government. It's not really about the assassination; it's about the assassination as a symbol of something deeper and darker. It's been that way for awhile, probably from the very beginning, but it's more explicit (and desperate) now.

On the conspiracy Left, it's the CIA and the Cold War policies, policies they think were illegitimate and immoral (some were but not all). Good lord, it never ends with them. And they see Oswald, as a fellow leftist, as a victim of this McCarthyite hysteria.

On the Right, it's the "Deep State" that tried to get Trump but got JFK. They really don't go after the Cold War policies since they are anti-communists and think they were largely justified. Why the MAGA conspiracy Right thinks they went after JFK is a puzzle to me. JFK as Trump? Trump as JFK? Really?

Where Michael Griffith fits in to this is a mystery. He seems to be a conspiracy hobbyist that is just doing this for...well I don't know. He has nearly everything faked but insists it was 20 to 30 people. He has disinformation agents right now manipulating opinion. And the news media being used to promote the lone assassin theory. It's all Oliver Stone/Jim Garrison type thinking but he's not a leftist. So again, I'm lost as to where he is coming from.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2025, 03:19:40 PM by Steve M. Galbraith »

Online Royell Storing

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Re: The lapel flip -- what did i miss?
« Reply #153 on: June 12, 2025, 05:57:00 PM »

  The Media's own Dan Rather described to this nation the Zapruder Film he watched the weekend following the assassination. Rather reported to this Nation that the Z Film he watched: (1) Showed the JFK Limo turning onto Elm St, (2) Showed Blood on Gov. Connally's shirt, and (3) Showed an Agent in the front seat of the JFK Limo with a Phone. NONE of this is on the Current Zapruder Film. This begs the question of how does a Lone Nut manage to kill a POTUS and then alter the Zapruder Film?