The lapel flip -- what did i miss?

[Royell Storing]

  So you wanna Now embrace eyewitnesses?  How about going with the #1 Eyewitness? The Victim. The guy that actually got shot. Gov Connally said Separate/Different Shots struck JFK and Him. Case Closed!

[Jack Nessan]

  So you wanna Now embrace eyewitnesses?  How about going with the #1 Eyewitness? The Victim. The guy that actually got shot. Gov Connally said Separate/Different Shots struck JFK and Him. Case Closed!

 So you wanna Now embrace eyewitnesses?

Why choose this moment to be a clown? I thought you would explain the Knotts Lab conclusion instead this is your post.
What happened to the bullet that exited JFK? Where did the shot originate from that struck JBC?


You must have forgotten the thousand times this was posted. Remember he never heard the shot that struck him. JBC only heard two shots.

JBC Stated he cried out Oh No No No after he was struck. Jackie and Nellie stated that was after the first shot and before the second. You know SBT.

 Don't leave me hanging, what happened to the bullet that passed through JFK and from where did the bullet that struck JBC originate? Can you call them and ask or are they also trying to distance themselves from this debacle like you and Michael.

[Michael T. Griffith]

Can you explain why this group of self-proclaimed, distinguished experts is in direct conflict with a large group of eyewitnesses who tell a completely different story? You know the eyewitnesses.

Ultimately the whole post comes down to was JBC struck by the same bullet as JFK. The answer according to the other group of experts who stood along the street beside the car, rode in cars and motorcycles behind the car, and were occupants of the car is yes. They give a detailed account of the two shots and the reactions of the victims, JBC and JFK. Nobody in this group is guessing or estimating reaction times and all the other nonsense needed to be viewed as an expert opinion.

A partial list includes: DPD Chaney, DPD Hargis, SA Clint Hill, UPI Photographer Altgens, Zapruder, and 40+ other eyewitnesses who stated there were only two shots. The 20+ eyewitnesses who watch the car accelerate after the second shot before a third shot. The 20+ eyewitnesses who claim the second and third shot were so close it sounded like one.

The occupants of the car:

Jackie, Nellie both stated JBC cried out Oh No, No, No after the first shot and before the second.

JBC stated he cried out Oh No, No, No, after he was struck by the bullet.

SA Greer is a two shot witness

SA Kellerman stated the car accelerated after the second shot and before a third.

The Chism's state the first shot occurred before JFK reached their location. Z217-218.

Jean Newman stated the first shot occurred approximately 10 feet after the car had passed her location. Z200

These eyewitnesses should be given priority over experts estimating reaction times as if it was something etched in stone.

Huh??? You are way off. Nellie Connally said there were three shots. She said she and her husband heard the first, that her husband was hit by the second shot, and that the head shot came next. Kellerman said there were at least three shots. In any shooting with multiple shots, some witnesses won't notice one or two of the shots/will only hear one or two of the shots. This is common, especially when two of the shots are very close together, and many witnesses commented that two of the shots came virtually at the time.

You also have all the witnesses who reported seeing a bullet strike the pavement early in the shooting. Even Posner finds these witnesses convincing. So did the HSCA.

Anyway, you are missing the point that JFK's obvious shot reaction in Z225 refutes the Z223-224 SBT.

[Jack Nessan]

Huh??? You are way off. Nellie Connally said there were three shots. She said she and her husband heard the first, that her husband was hit by the second shot, and that the head shot came next. Kellerman said there were at least three shots. In any shooting with multiple shots, some witnesses won't notice one or two of the shots/will only hear one or two of the shots. This is common, especially when two of the shots are very close together, and many witnesses commented that two of the shots came virtually at the time.

You also have all the witnesses who reported seeing a bullet strike the pavement early in the shooting. Even Posner finds these witnesses convincing. So did the HSCA.

Anyway, you are missing the point that JFK's obvious shot reaction in Z225 refutes the Z223-224 SBT.

No.

It is crystal clear what Nellie saw and heard. The exact same as Jackie.

Mrs. CONNALLY. -----------------------------------As the first shot was hit, and I turned to look at the same time, I recall John saying, "Oh, no, no,

Good for Posner and the HSCA.

The first shot took place where the eyewitnesses stated it took place. Z210-214

Are you making any headway on explaining Knotts Lab missing shooter and bullet?

[Royell Storing]

  What's next? You want me to explain how the atom was split?

[Zeon Mason]

That’s what they forgot when they did that last 2003 experiment with the 2 relics human torso models.  CLOTHES!  Perhaps including the shirts and jackets would have offered some more credence to the lapel flap flip and or if the tie not was be bypassed or not ( and replicate the holes in shirts and jackets) or not.

Perhaps adding the back brace that JFK wore might be appropriate.

Perhaps instead of a solid block of material that’s supposed to represent wrist bone, use a cadaver wrist bone?

Adding adjustable flexible arms to both dummy’s might have an effect.

The dummy models  should be on springs that allow some rotation of the torso and forward pivot with a degree of  resistance approximating the human muscle tension, so as to prove to a reasonable probability that JCs right shoulder rotating and his torso pivoting forward was caused by angular momentum of a bullet hiring JC to the high right side of his center of gravity relative to his torso, upper body mass, and orientation of his shoulders, arms and his head angle.

I’d would like to see the hat in the hand  of the JC dummy right hand and what was the most likely orientation of the hat being held upside down so that the wrist lines up with the SBT trajectory of JFK back wound, throat wound, and JCs back wound and front chest exit wound.

[Michael T. Griffith]

No.  It is crystal clear what Nellie saw and heard. The exact same as Jackie. Mrs. CONNALLY. -----------------------------------As the first shot was hit, and I turned to look at the same time, I recall John saying, "Oh, no, no,  Good for Posner and the HSCA.  The first shot took place where the eyewitnesses stated it took place. Z210-214 Are you making any headway on explaining Knotts Lab missing shooter and bullet?

I'm sorry, but I just can't take your reply seriously. Mrs. Connally said there were three shots. So did Governor Connally.

Another problem with the lapel-flip SBT is that it cannot explain the sudden slamming down of Connally's right shoulder starting in Z238. The Z238-243 shoulder collapse fits perfectly with the bullet's impact at Z234-237. Connally himself identified Z234 as the moment of impact. Interestingly, the two surgeons who operated on Connally, Dr. Charles Gregory and Dr. Robert Shaw, after studying the shooting sequence frame by frame, concluded that Connally was hit between Z234 and Z237.

A fact that most WC apologists ignore is that there is a strong blur episode from Z156-159. The HSCA blur analysis shows that the Z156-159 blur episode manifests in both blur measurements, i.e., percent of field of view and frame-to-frame departure from smooth panning. Several witnesses said the first shot was fired during or immediately after the limo's turn onto Elm Street. A 10-year-old girl named Rosemary Willis, running along the grass to the left of the limousine, begins to noticeably slow down between Z162 and Z174, and she is standing still by no later than Z187. When she was an adult, Ms. Willis explained that she stopped running because she heard a loud noise behind her. This shot was fired at right around Z150.

I mention the Z150 shot because it came no more than 40 frames before the Z186-190 shot, indicating this shot could not have been fired by the same gunman who fired the Z186-190 shot. The Z190-200 blur episode clearly indicates the blur-causing shot was fired at right around Z186. But, even if we assume it was fired at Z190, this would have been only 2.1 seconds after the Z150 shot. Given that the blur starts at Z190, positing the shot at Z190 is unreasonable. We must allow at least 4 frames between shot and blur. A Z186 shot would be only 1.9 seconds after the Z150 shot.

[Jack Nessan]

I'm sorry, but I just can't take your reply seriously. Mrs. Connally said there were three shots. So did Governor Connally.

Another problem with the lapel-flip SBT is that it cannot explain the sudden slamming down of Connally's right shoulder starting in Z238. The Z238-243 shoulder collapse fits perfectly with the bullet's impact at Z234-237. Connally himself identified Z234 as the moment of impact. Interestingly, the two surgeons who operated on Connally, Dr. Charles Gregory and Dr. Robert Shaw, after studying the shooting sequence frame by frame, concluded that Connally was hit between Z234 and Z237.

A fact that most WC apologists ignore is that there is a strong blur episode from Z156-159. The HSCA blur analysis shows that Z156-159 blur episode manifests in both blur measurements, i.e., percent of field of view and frame-to-frame departure from smooth panning. Several witnesses said the first shot was fired during or immediately after the limo's turn onto Elm Street. A 10-year-old girl named Rosemary Willis, running along the grass to the left of the limousine, begins to noticeably slow down between Z162 and Z174, and she is standing still by no later than Z187. When she was an adult, Ms. Willis explained that she stopped running because she heard a loud noise behind her. This shot was fired at right around Z150.

I mention the Z150 shot because it came no more than 40 frames before the Z186-190 shot, indicating this shot could not have been fired by the same gunman who fired Z186-190 shot. The Z190-200 blur episode clearly indicates the blur-causing shot was fired at right around Z186. But, even if we assume it was fired at Z190, this would have been only 2.1 seconds after the Z150 shot. Given that the blur starts at Z190, positing the shot at Z190 is unreasonable. We must allow at least 4 frames between shot and blur. A Z186 shot would be only 1.9 seconds after the Z150 shot.

What cannot be taken seriously is this make-believe storyline. This pseudo evidence is unbelievable. Another back door attempt to add another shooter to the assassination, for no other reason than you want the assassination to be a conspiracy. Not because it was one or this post makes any sense. You are just randomly guessing at the circumstances surrounding the assassination. You are referencing make believe shots that no one heard like they were real. If you cannot explain the wound in JBC’s back and how it got there, then give it up. The rest of this is just useless mumblings.

The eyewitnesses explain by their location exactly where the first shot took place. No guessing or interpretation is required. The eyewitnesses tell you the first shot hit them both. Why do you think they are lying about it. Is that what is required to believe there was a conspiracy? Everyone is lying about everything and only you can decipher the truth?

You want to quote the HSCA but completely ignore the testimony of Thomas Canning explaining there is no explanation for JBC’s wound other that a bullet passing through JFK. You don’t have to believe Mr. Canning; anyone can look at pictures of how JFK and JBC were oriented in the car and come up with the exact same conclusion. Do you think you are not intelligent enough to look at the photos, the same as Mr. Canning, and come up with the exact same conclusion? Maybe it is time to admit SBT is the answer or not and keep chasing your tail.