Oswald: No power lunch

[Martin Weidmann]

JohnM

What are you doing, Johnny? Didn't you just write this;

Sorry Martin, I only debate Conspiracy Theorists, fence sitters need not apply.

JohnM

so, why do you want to debate me now?

[John Mytton]

What are you doing, Johnny? Didn't you just write this;

so, why do you want to debate me now?

No you are debating yourself and you are losing....badly.

JohnM

[Martin Weidmann]

No you are debating yourself and you are losing....badly.

JohnM

Get back to me when you are making sense....

Your pathetic "headline only" hit and run pieces simply do not work.

As per usual you are not looking at the bigger picture, because you know you will lose that argument every time.

After hearing the radio call, Adams tried to get back into the building, which by then had been sealed off.

Miss ADAMS - When I got there, I happened to look around and noticed several of the employees, and I noticed Joe Molina, for one, was standing in front of the building, and also Avery Davis, who works with me, and I said, "What do you think has happened?"
And she said, "I don't know."
And I said, "I want to find out." I think the President is shot.
There was a motorcycle that was parked on the corner of Houston and Elm directly in front of the east end of the building, and I paused-there to listen to the report on the police radio, and they said that shots had been fired which apparently came either from the second floor or the fourth floor window, and so I panicked, as I was at the only open window on the fourth floor.
Mr. BELIN - Did they say second floor or second floor from the top?
Miss ADAMS - It said second floor. So then I decided maybe I had better go back into the building, and going up the stairs---
Mr. BELIN - Now at this time when you went back into the building, were there any policemen standing in front of the building keeping people out?
Miss ADAMS - There was an officer on the stairs itself, and he was prohibiting people from entering the building, that is correct. But I told him I worked there.
Mr. BELIN - Did he let you come back in?
Miss ADAMS - Yes, sir.

According to the narrative, the building was sealed of at 12:36.... Go figure!

And btw Bowles did say the clocks used by DPD dispatchers did not reflect real time. Under normal circumstances they could be off by a minute or so. He also explained to the HSCA that synchronization of the clocks wasn't normally done during busy periods. The radio traffic after JFK was shot was probably as busy as it could get, which explains that the time stamps could easily be nearly correct at around 12:30 and substantially off an hour later (because that's where your were trying to go, weren't you?  )

So, how am I debating myself and losing, Johnny? Go on then, tell us all.....

Btw, sorry if I destroyed your "gotcha" wet dream....

[John Mytton]

the radio traffic after JFK was shot was probably as busy as it could get, which explains that the time stamps could easily be nearly correct at around 12:30 

JohnM

Meaningless gif.

You know for a fact that the Hertz clock was 100% correct?

JohnM

[Martin Weidmann]

JohnM

For somebody who is not debating me, you seem rather desperate to debate me   

And yes, I did ask you how you knew the Hertz clock was correct and as per usual I never got a reply.

You are either not very good at answering questions or you simply understand that answering them makes you look silly.

[Walt Cakebread]

Sorry Martin,   I cannot agree ..... 
A) ...Lee Oswald was NOT on the sixth floor so he did not descend from anywhere ( he probably was in the 2nd floor lunchroom when Adams and Styles descended the stairs)


You have overlooked what I wrote at the beginning of the post;

For the purpose of this exercise I'll assume that the killer did in fact come down the stairs immediately after the shots. Full disclosure; I personally do not believe he did. I'll refer to the shooter on the 6th floor as "Oswald"

B) If Baker and Truly were standing in front of the elevators in the 1st floor shipping room, I seriously doubt that Adams and Styles could  have failed to see them....

I agree, that's why I said the times are approximations. There is no way that Adams/Styles and Truly/Baker could not have seen eachother in such close proximity of eachother. More likely, and I'm talking about seconds here, did Adams/Styles leave the building just before Truly/Baker got to the back of the shipping department.

Please remember Walt, this timeline is intended to confirm the most likely sequence of events, not to pin down each individual event to the exact second.

Ok, Sorry,  I over looked this.....

For the purpose of this exercise I'll assume that the killer did in fact come down the stairs immediately after the shots. Full disclosure; I personally do not believe he did. I'll refer to the shooter on the 6th floor as "Oswald"


I'm not sure that I understand....    Do you believe that there was a sniper firing on the President from the sixth floor?

I'm 99% certain that there was no sniper firing from the sixth floor SE corner window.    However Howard Brennan did swear that he saw a 165 pond man who was dressed in khaki and STANDING  and AIMING a rifle from a sixth floor window. 

Naturally Brennan could NOT have seen that man behind the partially open window at the SE corner of the sixth floor because it would have been physically impossible for a 5 ' 9"  man to STAND UPRIGHT behind that window and aim a rifle down at Elm street.   ( If he had fired the bullet would have hit the cement ledge beneath the window)   

So unless Brennan mixed up the chronology ( and he saw the man at about the same circa as Arnold Rowland) then he hd to have seen the man behind one of the west end windows.   

Personally, I believe that Brennan did see the khaki clad "deputy sheriff security guard " ( recall that Rowland thought the guy was a security guard) earlier than he said he did, which he said was DURING the shooting.    I think that in the excitement of the event he morphed the earlier sighting of the standing man behind the window and scanning the crowd below with the scope ( Rowland said the "security guard's rifle had a large scope mounted on it) on the rifle.

The bottom line i'm 99% sure that there were no shots fired from the TSBD ....and i'm 100% sure that no shot was fired from the SE corner window.

[Martin Weidmann]

Ok, Sorry,  I over looked this.....

For the purpose of this exercise I'll assume that the killer did in fact come down the stairs immediately after the shots. Full disclosure; I personally do not believe he did. I'll refer to the shooter on the 6th floor as "Oswald"


I'm not sure that I understand....    Do you believe that there was a sniper firing on the President from the sixth floor?

I'm 99% certain that there was no sniper firing from the sixth floor SE corner window.    However Howard Brennan did swear that he saw a 165 pond man who was dressed in khaki and STANDING  and AIMING a rifle from a sixth floor window. 

Naturally Brennan could NOT have seen that man behind the partially open window at the SE corner of the sixth floor because it would have been physically impossible for a 5 ' 9"  man to STAND UPRIGHT behind that window and aim a rifle down at Elm street.   ( If he had fired the bullet would have hit the cement ledge beneath the window)   

So unless Brennan mixed up the chronology ( and he saw the man at about the same circa as Arnold Rowland) then he hd to have seen the man behind one of the west end windows.   

Personally, I believe that Brennan did see the khaki clad "deputy sheriff security guard " ( recall that Rowland thought the guy was a security guard) earlier than he said he did, which he said was DURING the shooting.    I think that in the excitement of the event he morphed the earlier sighting of the standing man behind the window and scanning the crowd below with the scope ( Rowland said the "security guard's rifle had a large scope mounted on it) on the rifle.

The bottom line i'm 99% sure that there were no shots fired from the TSBD ....and i'm 100% sure that no shot was fired from the SE corner window.

Walt, my timeline was/is merely a hypothesis based on as much of the evidentiary information that is available.

Do you believe that there was a sniper firing on the President from the sixth floor?

That requires a determination which I am not willing or able to make based on the available evidence. It would be most helpful if it had been determined that the MC rifle found on the 6th floor had actually been fired.

[Walt Cakebread]

Walt, my timeline was/is merely a hypothesis based on as much of the evidentiary information that is available.

Do you believe that there was a sniper firing on the President from the sixth floor?

That requires a determination which I am not willing or able to make based on the available evidence. It would be most helpful if it had been determined that the MC rifle found on the 6th floor had actually been fired.

Based on the fact that the FBI refused to test the rifle until it had been cleaned a oiled, I'd say the rifle was in poor condition,
(  dirty and rusty) .... And if the rifle's bore was dirty and corroded, it could NOT have been fired on 11-22-63....

If it had been fired on 11-22-63 the bore would have been relatively clean, because the projectiles and hot gasses, traveling through that barrel would have blown any dirt out of the barrel...  But the FBI refused to fire the rifle until it had been cleaned and oiled.   

And there is a whole host of other evidence that the carcano was NOT fired that day.....One of the spent shells was badly dented and it could not have been fired that day....  ( and being ejected into cardboard boxes most certainly would not dent a carcano casing.)

And there's still  more evidence that totally crushes the theory that the Carcan was the murder weapon.....