Does Hiding a Rifle You Plan On Leaving Anyway Really Make Sense?

[Mitch Todd]

Grease, dirt and grime adhering to the sides of the magazine well can prevent the clip from falling out properly after the last cartridge is chambered. It's This has been known for quite some while. Lattimer brought it to the attention of the JFKA community in Kennedy and Lincoln back in 1980.

But it is a fact that the clip was slowly falling out as detective Day handled the rifle...That means the clip was NOT hung up in the magazine.

I said that the grime keeps the clip from falling out properly. I didn't say that it kept the clip frozen in place. The clip is still able to work it's way out as the rifle is moved and manipulated.

2.) In the Carcano, ejection is powered by the cycling of the action. Because of that, the force applied by the ejector against the cartridge rim is directly proportional to the force being used to pull the bolt backwards. If you pull softly, you wont get much ejection out of your ejection.

Yes it's true the spent shell ( or live round) can be prevented from being ejected by refraining from pulling the bolt back all the way or pulling the bolt slowly to the rear.... But that's not what Capt Fritz did....He pulled the bolt back in a rapid motion and the live round merely fell out of the rifle....It was NOT ejected by the ejector.   Which means the cartridge was not married to the face of the bolt....That live round had simply been dropped into the barrel ..... It had not been stripped from the clip.  The elevator lever scratches the last round in the clip but there was no elevator mark on the live round.   The reason....  That Live round was not fed to the bolt by the elevator lever.....

Oh? And where did you get this idea form? Doesn't seem to have come from Day, Fritz, Weitzman, or Boone -- I checked their affidavits and testimony.

[Jerry Organ]

I said that the grime keeps the clip from falling out properly. I didn't say that it kept the clip frozen in place. The clip is still able to work it's way out as the rifle is moved and manipulated.
Oh? And where did you get this idea form? Doesn't seem to have come from Day, Fritz, Weitzman, or Boone -- I checked their affidavits and testimony.

You'll have to make allowances for our Walt. His reading comprehension and knowledge retention is below even that of the average JFK Assassination Conspiracy Theorist. On the "plus side", Walt lies and misrepresents about 25% more than the average JFK-ACT.

[Walt Cakebread]

You'll have to make allowances for our Walt. His reading comprehension and knowledge retention is below even that of the average JFK Assassination Conspiracy Theorist. On the "plus side", Walt lies and misrepresents about 25% more than the average JFK-ACT.

Jerry,  Mitch said " that the grime keeps the clip from falling out properly. I didn't say that it kept the clip frozen in place. The clip is still able to work it's way out as the rifle is moved and manipulated".

 He said that in spite of the numerous photos that show that the clip was sliding out of the rifle in spite of the fact that the rifle was not positioned so that gravity could take effect and pull the clip out of the rifle.

IOW.... His theory is simply BS!

[Mitch Todd]

Jerry,  Mitch said " that the grime keeps the clip from falling out properly. I didn't say that it kept the clip frozen in place. The clip is still able to work it's way out as the rifle is moved and manipulated".

 He said that in spite of the numerous photos that show that the clip was sliding out of the rifle in spite of the fact that the rifle was not positioned so that gravity could take effect and pull the clip out of the rifle.

IOW.... His theory is simply BS!

Walt apparently doesn't know how to read. 

Nothing I said precludes the clip working its way out as it was handled and walked down the stairs and taken out of the building.

[Walt Cakebread]

Walt apparently doesn't know how to read. 

Nothing I said precludes the clip working its way out as it was handled and walked down the stairs and taken out of the building.

Yes, And the point is:....  If the rifle had been fired the ejection port would have been down toward the floor. So if the clip was working it's way out of the magazine even though the E port wasn't down then that clip would have definitely have dropped out when the rifle was being fired.

[Zeon Mason]

Ok, I must apologize for asking my question about the black clip, as honestly, I didn’t remember there ever being such photo of the brass clip version of Lt. Day carrying the rifle by the strap.

But then since it’s an obvious contrast of brass clip vs black magazine well and it’s quite obviously sticking out far enough that it could be easily seen and yet it’s still not removed, even being carried by Lt. Day for some time and distance, photographed?

In the Aleya film, the brass clip is apparently visible, yet no one there is aware this rifle has a clip in it?

Again, I guess It’s a question of sloppy evidence examination and proper clearing of a loaded weapon or it’s CYA and the last round loaded NOT by clip feed.

This brings to mind Harold Norman again as he heard only THREE boom clack clack sounds

One might suggest that a shooter who i in rapid mode trying to operate bolt action rifle is going to go thru all 4 shells loaded and only manages to stop himself from FIRING his last clip fed round as he sees the effect of his 3rd round.

But if this last 4th round was loaded and shooter stopped short of pulling trigger, then should not Harold Norman have heard a 4th “Clack clack   sounds of the bolt operated just once more after 3rd shot fired?

So now I do wonder about if the boom-clack-clack  noise Norman is describing is actually that of a semi auto rifle and it’s  Boom clink clink, the clink clink being the shells hitting the floor.

This would be therefore a more probable 4 sec spacing of 3 shots as Norman replicates ( video time spacing).

[Walt Cakebread]

Ok, I must apologize for asking my question about the black clip, as honestly, I didn’t remember there ever being such photo of the brass clip version of Lt. Day carrying the rifle by the strap.

But then since it’s an obvious contrast of brass clip vs black magazine well and it’s quite obviously sticking out far enough that it could be easily seen and yet it’s still not removed, even being carried by Lt. Day for some time and distance, photographed?

In the Aleya film, the brass clip is apparently visible, yet no one there is aware this rifle has a clip in it?

Again, I guess It’s a question of sloppy evidence examination and proper clearing of a loaded weapon or it’s CYA and the last round loaded NOT by clip feed.

This brings to mind Harold Norman again as he heard only THREE boom clack clack sounds

One might suggest that a shooter who i in rapid mode trying to operate bolt action rifle is going to go thru all 4 shells loaded and only manages to stop himself from FIRING his last clip fed round as he sees the effect of his 3rd round.

But if this last 4th round was loaded and shooter stopped short of pulling trigger, then should not Harold Norman have heard a 4th “Clack clack   sounds of the bolt operated just once more after 3rd shot fired?

So now I do wonder about if the boom-clack-clack  noise Norman is describing is actually that of a semi auto rifle and it’s  Boom clink clink, the clink clink being the shells hitting the floor.

This would be therefore a more probable 4 sec spacing of 3 shots as Norman replicates ( video time spacing).

But then since it’s an obvious contrast of brass clip vs black magazine well and it’s quite obviously sticking out far enough that it could be easily seen and yet it’s still not removed, even being carried by Lt. Day for some time and distance, photographed?

In the Aleya film, the brass clip is apparently visible, yet no one there is aware this rifle has a clip in it?

Detective Day was a complete ignoramus about the carcano....  He had no idea  that the rifle required a clip for it to be a functioning repeater.  He  had no clue that the brass clip was in the magazine.   In fact I would not be surprised to learn that the clip fell out of the rifle not long after the reporters photos that were taken in front of the TSBD.

[Mitch Todd]

Yes, And the point is:....  If the rifle had been fired the ejection port would have been down toward the floor. So if the clip was working it's way out of the magazine even though the E port wasn't down then that clip would have definitely have dropped out when the rifle was being fired.

I have found over the years that tapping more/faster gets better results than hitting harder. Especially with things like roll pins, which are of course held in place by friction. And the direction of the applied force is often critically important. In short, the physical reality is far less predictable than you'd like us to believe.