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Author Topic: Et tu, Bonnie?  (Read 266430 times)

Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: Et tu, Bonnie?
« Reply #273 on: April 15, 2021, 01:39:41 AM »
What it like to be unable to have a normal discussion for fear of a total lack of arguments and/or evidence to back it up?

Doesn't it get tiresome to constantly play the forum's clown?

Isn't it tiresome being just another Oswald-Loving Clone?

What's it like to have to constantly pretend this is a court-of-law.
And that anyone should fear your overarching-reliance on witness guesses
and estimations?

'total lack of arguments'
Why argue about that which is so obvious.
[Oswald killed Tippit/rosetta-stoned Kennedy)

total lack of evidence
Plenty of people @Tippit and environs that day, Sluggo.

Offline Colin Crow

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Re: Et tu, Bonnie?
« Reply #274 on: April 15, 2021, 01:51:40 AM »
If you don't know because you have only focused on pedantic nonsense like the remains of a chicken sandwich, just say so.  It seems like an interesting question that I don't recall anyone here ever discussing while going on and on endlessly about measuring Oswald's arm pits and how the bag was folded (kind of and sort of).

Predictable that you won’t venture into discussing aspects of the crime scene evidence. What is your area of research into the assassination? So far all I’ve ever seen from your posting is regurgitation of the work of others.

The lunch was originally discovered in the snipers nest. Prove me wrong. Bill can join your effort if need help.

Offline Colin Crow

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Re: Et tu, Bonnie?
« Reply #275 on: April 15, 2021, 02:42:43 AM »
.

Problems with this scenario:

Oswald states he is in the Domino room when Norman and Jarman enter the building. He doesn't see Dougherty there and Dougherty doesn't see him.
While Williams is on the 6th, then Dougherty, the assassin has to construct the SN (and assemble the rifle?)
Rowland sees the man with the rifle on the 6th way before Norman and Jarman go up to the 5th meaning he is there at the same time as Williams (and while Oswald is still in the Domino room).
Williams is insistent no-one was up there for the 20+ minutes he was up there.

Danny Arce claimed he ate lunch with Dougherty then went outside with the others. Who knows where Dougherty went after Arce left.

As for the problems......

Maybe Dougherty left the domino room after eating with Arce. We know that Norman and Jarman left the front of the TSBD about 12.20. Arce had seen Jarman out there before he left.

There was minimal construction of the SN required. The stacks of books had been moved there to allow for the floor laying. Similarly a rifle could be assembled at any time that morning as long as the assembler could be assured of privacy for the required time.

Rowland saw the man with the rifle at 12.15. Williams only vacates the sixth floor after Jarman and Norman arrive below him. Has to be around 12.25.

Rowland testified he saw an African American in the SN window also. Just so happens Williams lunch remnants were original found in the SN. A piece of unfinished chicken and a bag found separately.

I wonder who that African American Rowland saw could be. What really made him decide to venture downstairs?


Online Dan O'meara

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Re: Et tu, Bonnie?
« Reply #276 on: April 15, 2021, 03:36:45 AM »
Danny Arce claimed he ate lunch with Dougherty then went outside with the others. Who knows where Dougherty went after Arce left.

As for the problems......

Maybe Dougherty left the domino room after eating with Arce. We know that Norman and Jarman left the front of the TSBD about 12.20. Arce had seen Jarman out there before he left.

There was minimal construction of the SN required. The stacks of books had been moved there to allow for the floor laying. Similarly a rifle could be assembled at any time that morning as long as the assembler could be assured of privacy for the required time.

Rowland saw the man with the rifle at 12.15. Williams only vacates the sixth floor after Jarman and Norman arrive below him. Has to be around 12.25.

Rowland testified he saw an African American in the SN window also. Just so happens Williams lunch remnants were original found in the SN. A piece of unfinished chicken and a bag found separately.

I wonder who that African American Rowland saw could be. What really made him decide to venture downstairs?

In this transcript of Dallas Police tapes at 12:22 the motorcade is "approaching Main".
Somewhere between 12:22 and 12:25 the motorcade is on Main.



Assume a minute or two for news to get through to those at the TSBD that the motorcade is on Main.
This scenario has Norman and Jarman deciding to go up to the 5th around 12:23 at the earliest.
Jarman seems to think they get to the elevators between 12:25 and 12:28 which seems to accord with the transcript.

This has Williams eating his lunch in the Sniper's Nest until 12:25 if not later.
Unless another black employee joined him it's hard to get away from Williams being the man Rowland saw in the SN window.

It's hard to imagine the assassin just hanging around hoping Williams would disappear.
I imagine Williams was told to get out of there and keep his mouth shut or he knew the assassin was there all along and it wasn't a problem.

Offline Colin Crow

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Re: Et tu, Bonnie?
« Reply #277 on: April 15, 2021, 03:49:22 AM »
In this transcript of Dallas Police tapes at 12:22 the motorcade is "approaching Main".
Somewhere between 12:22 and 12:25 the motorcade is on Main.



Assume a minute or two for news to get through to those at the TSBD that the motorcade is on Main.
This scenario has Norman and Jarman deciding to go up to the 5th around 12:23 at the earliest.
Jarman seems to think they get to the elevators between 12:25 and 12:28 which seems to accord with the transcript.

This has Williams eating his lunch in the Sniper's Nest until 12:25 if not later.
Unless another black employee joined him it's hard to get away from Williams being the man Rowland saw in the SN window.

It's hard to imagine the assassin just hanging around hoping Williams would disappear.
I imagine Williams was told to get out of there and keep his mouth shut or he knew the assassin was there all along and it wasn't a problem.

12:22 pm 1 (Curry/Decker) Escort drop back, go real slow speed now
approaching Main.

I was going from memory Dan, but yeah the motorcade reached Main about 12.24. Interesting how this differs from the "official" story. The assassin likely taking position just minutes before the shooting.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2021, 04:15:09 AM by Colin Crow »

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Et tu, Bonnie?
« Reply #278 on: April 15, 2021, 11:25:11 AM »
Isn't it tiresome being just another Oswald-Loving Clone?

What's it like to have to constantly pretend this is a court-of-law.
And that anyone should fear your overarching-reliance on witness guesses
and estimations?

'total lack of arguments'
Why argue about that which is so obvious.
[Oswald killed Tippit/rosetta-stoned Kennedy)

total lack of evidence
Plenty of people @Tippit and environs that day, Sluggo.

Quote
'total lack of arguments'
Why argue about that which is so obvious.
[Oswald killed Tippit/rosetta-stoned Kennedy)

If it is really so obvious that you've got nothing to argue about, what exactly are you doing here?

[Oswald killed Tippit/rosetta-stoned Kennedy)

That's your flawed opinion and thus something to argue about. Unless of course you can only claim it but not prove it.  Thumb1:


Online Dan O'meara

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Re: Et tu, Bonnie?
« Reply #279 on: April 15, 2021, 01:01:24 PM »
12:22 pm 1 (Curry/Decker) Escort drop back, go real slow speed now
approaching Main.

I was going from memory Dan, but yeah the motorcade reached Main about 12.24. Interesting how this differs from the "official" story. The assassin likely taking position just minutes before the shooting.

Don Thomas has an interesting article on the Mary Ferrell site-
[https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/Essay_-_Rewriting_History_-_Bugliosi_Parses_the_Testimony.html]
In it he makes the following point:

"Thus, Williams was not certain about just where he left the remains of his lunch. But it is certain that he left the scraps of his lunch in the sniper’s nest window, exactly where Arnold Rowland saw him, in spite of the fact that the scraps wound up two aisles over. One clue as to what had happened is that when the crime scene detectives found them, the chicken bones were inside the lunch sack, suggesting that someone had tidied up the crime scene. By inference this person most likely would have been the hapless Captain Fritz, who arrived shortly before the crime scene detectives. The witnesses who arrived after Fritz saw the chicken lunch and pop bottle on the third aisle. All those witnesses who arrived ahead of Fritz saw the chicken bones scattered on the boxes in the sniper's nest."

Fritz was still convinced at the time of his WC testimony that the lunch remains were of no significance.
It appears that Bonnie Ray Williams was in the sniper's nest eating his lunch until 12:25 if not later.
I think we differ slightly in our opinion of what he was doing there. I get the impression you look at him in a more innocent light than I do. I find his actions after leaving the SN are more in accord with someone up to no good but it's a subjective opinion (that may say more about me than anything)