JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate > JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate
Oswald's shot-1 ricochet was at Z113 or Z105.
Andrew Mason:
--- Quote from: Dan O'meara on August 31, 2021, 02:45:49 AM ---Also note that in z271 - 275, when the bullet is supposedly exiting JBC's chest and smashing his wrist apart, that his hand doesn't appear to move a fraction of an inch.
Irrefutable video evidence that the bullet does not exit JBC's chest at this moment.
Can't believe this nonsense is still being peddled.
--- End quote ---
I am not sure you are right about that. There is a noticeable change in appearance of the wrist because the hat moves significantly there. Here is the difference between two fairly clear frames z268 and z274.
By z274 JFK's body has changed posture and he moves toward the front before falling back onto his wife.
Besides, his right arm appears to be pinned against the chest, probably because he is pressing his arm into the seatback. Also the bullet made a glancing strike to the back of the wrist. It did not smash his wrist apart. Where do you ever see the wrist smashed apart?
But all of this just helps to pinpoint the frames. It is the 1.....2...3 shot pattern with the head shot being the last shot that tells us there was a shot there. Gerald Blaine in his book The Kennedy Detail maintains that there was a shot as Clint Hill jumped off the QM and before the headshot. Altgens said his z256 shot was after the first and before any other shots. Nellie said the second shot came after she last looked back at JFK. She is looking at him until z269 or so. Hickey said that the last two shots occurred as he was turned looking at the President. He is facing rearward until after z256 (Altgens).
So I would have to disagree that there is no evidence to support a shot after the midpoint between the first shot and the headshot.
Andrew Mason:
--- Quote from: Jerry Organ on August 31, 2021, 11:10:45 PM ---
Mason thinks nothing is going on here
with Connally, other than Connally
showing concern for Kennedy.
--- End quote ---
There is a lot going on here. JFK has just been shot. JBC has heard it and recognized it as a rifle shot and realizes an assassination is underway. He immediately wants to see how the President is and turns around to his right. As he does this turn, he yells "Oh, no, no" (which his wife said was before the second shot). This draws Jackie's attention as we can see. Nellie said he turned around to see JFK before the second shot. There is nowhere else where he even tries to turn to see JFK.
--- Quote ---
Mason thinks the strike to the wrist
occurred here because the hat moved.
(Clip starts with exact moment of
Mason's proposed strike to wrist)
--- End quote ---
To be fair, Jerry, I think the strike to the wrist occurred around z270 because:
1. the vast majority of witnesses who commented on the shot spacing specifically recalled that the last two shots were closer together - in rapid succession.
2. the Connally's insisted that JBC was not hit on the first or third shots.
3. the head shot was the last of the shots
4. there were exactly three shots.
I believe it likely occurred between z271 and z272 because:
1. JBC begins moving forward at z272 and then starts falling back on his wife at about z278
2. Greer said he turned around for the first of his two turns immediately upon (simultaneous with) the second shot. His head is finishing the turn at z281-285.
3. Hickey was looking forward for the last two shots. He is still turned to the rear at z256. He said the first of the last two did not appear to hit JFK as all he saw on the second shot was JFK's hair fly up on his right side. His hair does exactly that from z273-277.
4. There is a noticeable movement of the left sunvisor on between z271 and z272.
5. There is a noticeable change in the appearance of the wrist between z271 and z272.
Now, I could be wrong within a frame or two of z271. We cannot see JBC in z270 and only part of him in z269.
--- Quote ---Actually the hat as it's held isn't
changing much; The change in
appearance is because areas are
moving out of shade from the roll-bar
because Connally is falling back
towards Nellie.
--- End quote ---
Right. As if we cannot see through the shadow cast by the roof bar. There is no question that there is a change in the posture of JBC his wrist position relative to the hat:
Dan O'meara:
--- Quote from: Andrew Mason on September 01, 2021, 06:29:52 PM ---There is a lot going on here. JFK has just been shot. JBC has heard it and recognized it as a rifle shot and realizes an assassination is underway. He immediately wants to see how the President is and turns around to his right. As he does this turn, he yells "Oh, no, no" (which his wife said was before the second shot). This draws Jackie's attention as we can see. Nellie said he turned around to see JFK before the second shot. There is nowhere else where he even tries to turn to see JFK.
To be fair, Jerry, I think the strike to the wrist occurred around z270 because:
1. the vast majority of witnesses who commented on the shot spacing specifically recalled that the last two shots were closer together - in rapid succession.
2. the Connally's insisted that JBC was not hit on the first or third shots.
3. the head shot was the last of the shots
4. there were exactly three shots.
I believe it likely occurred between z271 and z272 because:
1. JBC begins moving forward at z272 and then starts falling back on his wife at about z278
2. Greer said he turned around for the first of his two turns immediately upon (simultaneous with) the second shot. His head is finishing the turn at z281-285.
3. Hickey was looking forward for the last two shots. He is still turned to the rear at z256. He said the first of the last two did not appear to hit JFK as all he saw on the second shot was JFK's hair fly up on his right side. His hair does exactly that from z273-277.
4. There is a noticeable movement of the left sunvisor on between z271 and z272.
5. There is a noticeable change in the appearance of the wrist between z271 and z272.
Now, I could be wrong within a frame or two of z271. We cannot see JBC in z270 and only part of him in z269.
Right. As if we cannot see through the shadow cast by the roof bar. There is no question that there is a change in the posture of JBC his wrist position relative to the hat:
--- End quote ---
Look at the position of the bullet hole in Connally's jacket, it is below where the lapel terminates and above the top button.
This is an approximation of the bullet hole on JBC's jacket on the day of the assassination:
Look at the position of his wrist at z272:
Does it really need explaining that his wrist, just below the knot in his tie, is way to high to be struck by a bullet exiting his chest at this point of the Zfilm?
Andrew Mason:
--- Quote from: Dan O'meara on September 01, 2021, 07:03:34 PM ---Look at the position of the bullet hole in Connally's jacket, it is below where the lapel terminates and above the top button.
This is an approximation of the bullet hole on JBC's jacket on the day of the assassination:
Look at the position of his wrist at z272:
Does it really need explaining that his wrist, just below the knot in his tie, is way to high to be struck by a bullet exiting his chest at this point of the Zfilm?
--- End quote ---
I gather from your response that you are assuming that it is the holes in the clothing rather than in the body that determines where the bullet struck. Why? Or are you suggesting that the yellow dot matches the location of JBC's right nipple?:
I would also point out that the jacket cuff had bullet hole 1/2 inch wide and 3/8 inch from the end of the sleeve:
Since that sleeve end is not seen, we cannot be sure exactly where it was.
It is interesting to note that the shirt cuff had two holes. One hole went from 3/4 inch above the end of the shirt cuff (3.25 inches from the cuff fold edge) to the end of the cuff (2.5 inches from the cuff fold edge).
The other hole in the shirt sleeve was a very jagged horizontal hole whose edge was 1 inch from the end of the cuff fold and the other edge was 1 inch from the end of the french cuff (ie. about 1.5 inches from the cuff end):
So, if you go 3.25 inches from the end of the french cuff and on the side next to the chest, that appears to be where the bullet struck. The bullet appears to have fragmented on striking the radius and the fragments deflecting off the back of the radius passed through the middle of the cuff causing a large irregular tear.
Dan O'meara:
--- Quote from: Andrew Mason on September 01, 2021, 11:55:47 PM ---I gather from your response that you are assuming that it is the holes in the clothing rather than in the body that determines where the bullet struck. Why?
--- End quote ---
You gather incorrectly.
Go back and look at the images. It is clear the hole in JBC's jacket is way below the wrist position. There is no way you can explain it away. You can only deny the obvious.
--- Quote --- Or are you suggesting that the yellow dot matches the location of JBC's right nipple?
--- End quote ---
The dot represents the bullet hole in JBC's jacket
--- Quote ---I would also point out that the jacket cuff had bullet hole 1/2 inch wide and 3/8 inch from the end of the sleeve:
Since that sleeve end is not seen, we cannot be sure exactly where it was.
--- End quote ---
picture sharing
The cuff of JBC's jacket is clearly seen.
I've put on an arrow to help.
--- Quote ---It is interesting to note that the shirt cuff had two holes. One hole went from 1/2 inch above the end of the shirt cuff (3 inches from the cuff fold edge) to the end of the cuff (2.5 inches from the cuff fold edge).
If you go 3 inches down from the end of the french cuff and on the side next to the chest, that appears to be where the bullet struck. The bullet appears to have fragmented on striking the radius and the fragments deflecting off the back of the radius passed through the middle of the cuff causing a large irregular tear.
The other hole in the shirt sleeve was a very jagged horizontal hole whose edge was 1 inch from the end of the cuff fold and the other edge was 1 inch from the end of the french cuff (ie. about 2.5 inches from the cuff end):
--- End quote ---
Without realising it you've provided the third piece of evidence highlighting the impossibility of a shot around z270.
In the image above it is clear the end of the jacket sleeve and the french cuff of his shirt don't line up in a way that explains the holes in each. JBC's jacket sleeve is too far down, there is too much of the shirt sleeve showing.
In the above image it is possible to determine where the radius is (at the point where his wrist is flexing, up near the tie knot). The jacket sleeve is a good few inches below this point.
How is it possible for a bullet entering the sleeve of the jacket to shatter the radius?
Answer - it's not.
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