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Author Topic: The Bus Stop Farce  (Read 88339 times)

Online Charles Collins

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Re: The Bus Stop Farce
« Reply #664 on: December 19, 2020, 10:09:41 PM »
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Seems you've had a couple of face-to-facers with CTers as have I. They tend to yell very loudly, along with demonstrating the body-english of a cage fighter.

I tried having a reasonable discussion, ignoring the insults, etc. When that proved impossible I gave up.

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Re: The Bus Stop Farce
« Reply #664 on: December 19, 2020, 10:09:41 PM »


Online Charles Collins

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Re: The Bus Stop Farce
« Reply #665 on: December 19, 2020, 10:15:30 PM »
Here is an exerpt from Chapter One of “With Malice” by Dale Myers:

Former dispatch supervisor Jim Bowles used a stop watch and some mathematics to deduce a “real” time from the police recordings by comparing an arbitrary zero base-time with the recorded time announcements that followed. A similar technique was applied to the entire channel one recordings for this book. The study shows that with the exception of five areas, the rapid radio exchanges that occurred in the wake of the Kennedy assassination caused the channel one recorder to operate in an almost continuous fashion. The result is a virtual “running clock” on the events surrounding Tippit’s death and the arrest of Lee Harvey Oswald. It should be stressed that the recording contains no exact record of “real time.” What it does contain is a sequence of events whose relationship to one another can be measured. For example, a time check of 1:19 p.m. and a check of 1:22 p.m. do not necessarily relate to “real time,” yet a stop watch review of the tapes show that the two instances did occur three minutes apart. By applying a stop watch and some mathematics to the channel one recordings, and comparing the resulting sequence of events with the eyewitness accounts, a reasonably accurate reconstruction of the Tippit murder and its aftermath was possible. The result is the real-life detective story that follows.

This is what I was suggesting is possible earlier in this thread. Dale’s description is better than mine.

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: The Bus Stop Farce
« Reply #666 on: December 19, 2020, 10:26:54 PM »
I tried having a reasonable discussion, ignoring the insults, etc. When that proved impossible I gave up.

Oh please... If you call what you did a "reasonable discussion" then you have some very strange ideas about what those words actually mean.

In a reasonable discussion, you don't misrepresent the time Scoggins said to fit your own agenda, by making it look as if his conversation with his dispatcher at 1.23 took place when the ambulance arrived. Nor do you make up a scenario out of thin air in which Bowley had to go into the office of the school to get permission to get his daughter out of the class, just to argue that his watch must have been slow, when there isn't the slightest bit of proof for that. In a reasonable discussion you try to make sense of all the evidence combined that went into the construction of the time line and you don't try to attack individual parts with bogus claims while ignoring the rest.

You claim to have been a CT once. I don't believe it for a second. You claim to be interested in the truth, which I am sure is absolutely not true, and you pretend that you are capable to admit when you have been wrong about something when every discussion I have with you proves the opposite. You can run away from the discussion as much as you want. All that tells me is that you know you are on the wrong side of the argument and can't handle being there and/or risk having to admit to yourself that the story you want to believe in is as bogus as you are yourself.

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Re: The Bus Stop Farce
« Reply #666 on: December 19, 2020, 10:26:54 PM »


Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: The Bus Stop Farce
« Reply #667 on: December 19, 2020, 10:41:40 PM »
Here is an exerpt from Chapter One of “With Malice” by Dale Myers:

Former dispatch supervisor Jim Bowles used a stop watch and some mathematics to deduce a “real” time from the police recordings by comparing an arbitrary zero base-time with the recorded time announcements that followed. A similar technique was applied to the entire channel one recordings for this book. The study shows that with the exception of five areas, the rapid radio exchanges that occurred in the wake of the Kennedy assassination caused the channel one recorder to operate in an almost continuous fashion. The result is a virtual “running clock” on the events surrounding Tippit’s death and the arrest of Lee Harvey Oswald. It should be stressed that the recording contains no exact record of “real time.” What it does contain is a sequence of events whose relationship to one another can be measured. For example, a time check of 1:19 p.m. and a check of 1:22 p.m. do not necessarily relate to “real time,” yet a stop watch review of the tapes show that the two instances did occur three minutes apart. By applying a stop watch and some mathematics to the channel one recordings, and comparing the resulting sequence of events with the eyewitness accounts, a reasonably accurate reconstruction of the Tippit murder and its aftermath was possible. The result is the real-life detective story that follows.

This is what I was suggesting is possible earlier in this thread. Dale’s description is better than mine.

It should be stressed that the recording contains no exact record of “real time.”

This alone makes everything that follows questionable.

What it does contain is a sequence of events whose relationship to one another can be measured. For example, a time check of 1:19 p.m. and a check of 1:22 p.m. do not necessarily relate to “real time,” yet a stop watch review of the tapes show that the two instances did occur three minutes apart.

I understand the logic of what he is saying, but it is meaningless if he is still using the times called out by the dispatcher, because that ignores completely what Bowles told the HSCA about the time stamps not being reliable to determine "real time".

And, even worse, the transcripts show that no times were called between 12.55 and 1.04. After that the next time call is 1.07 and then between 1.12 and 1.15 there were no time calls. Those are gaps of 9 minutes, 3 minutes and 3 minutes respectively. And then there is the problem that the actual audio recordings demonstrate clearly that there was no continuous recording between 12.55 and 1.15 and there also is no event during that period that could pin point an exact time, so there is no way of knowing where to start the stopwatch Myers claimed to have used.

Myers concluded that Tippit was killed at 1.14. If he is using the time calls as a guide and the starting time of the dictabelt recording was off by three or four minutes, which IMO opinion, given what Bowles told the HSCA is not beyond being impossible, the real time could have easily be 1.10 or 1.11 and the DPD recordings would still match up, except of course for the time calls themselves.

By applying a stop watch and some mathematics to the channel one recordings, and comparing the resulting sequence of events with the eyewitness accounts, a reasonably accurate reconstruction of the Tippit murder and its aftermath was possible. 


There is absolutely no way that Myers could have compared the DPD recordings with the eyewitness accounts, simply because those eyewitness accounts do not match with the transcripts.

But, and I am going out on a limb here, if you are prepared to look at the factual information honestly, I am willing to walk you through the "comparision" of the DPD transcripts with the eyewitness accounts.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2020, 12:58:08 AM by Martin Weidmann »

Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: The Bus Stop Farce
« Reply #668 on: December 19, 2020, 10:49:38 PM »
Oh look.. the LN "mini-me" joins in, again.... What a surprise... Not!

No CTr yells, but it's certainly possible that what they say comes trough loud and clear enough to shatter the LN fantasy.

You sound like a f*cking Republican, accusing other of what they are doing themselves and then whine that people are nasty when their fake crap get destroyed!

It's kinda sad and ironic, because if you guys (before you ask; the LNs) had an easily defendable and persuasive case you wouldn't need this pathetic behavior.

Don't blow a gasket there, Tex.
Mini-me? Sorry, I'm spoken for.

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Re: The Bus Stop Farce
« Reply #668 on: December 19, 2020, 10:49:38 PM »


Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: The Bus Stop Farce
« Reply #669 on: December 19, 2020, 10:53:12 PM »
Oswald was seen wearing a jacket @Tippit. And point out where I claim that Oswald didn't have a jacket when he left the rooming house.

And point out where I claim that Oswald didn't have a jacket when he left the rooming house.

Exactly. You don't claim that. Instead you just assume that he did leave the rooming house with a jacket.

That's the circular logic!

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: The Bus Stop Farce
« Reply #670 on: December 19, 2020, 11:05:57 PM »
Here, let me catch you up: Since June 2019, there
are a total of 29 separate references related to my
interactions regarding Fritz

Bully for you. So who’s “the other Frazier” who threatened Buell Frazier then?

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Re: The Bus Stop Farce
« Reply #670 on: December 19, 2020, 11:05:57 PM »


Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: The Bus Stop Farce
« Reply #671 on: December 19, 2020, 11:11:46 PM »
Bowley made the report on the police radio at 1:17.

There is no “1:17” dispatcher time check on the extant tapes.