The Bus Stop Farce

[Charles Collins]

They're not online anywhere.  I listened to the unedited tapes with Dale Myers at his house back in September.

Thanks, I wasn’t having any luck searching online. So, it doesn’t appear to be a defect in my searching. Did Dale happen to explain or expound on any of the details of his methods to you?

[Martin Weidmann]

Before making his way up to the patrol car, Callaway first watched Oswald make his trek all the way down Patton to Jefferson.  A couple minutes had passed before Callaway actually reached the scene and he did not immediately get on the radio to report the shooting.

You really need to read his testimony more closely, Bill.

Callaway didn't wait on the porche of his office to watch the killer "trek all the way down Patton to Jefferson". He ran towards 10th street and was about halfway down Patton when he encountered the killer. If he had waited for only a minute he would have missed the killer completely.

In his testimony and his first day affidavit Callaway said he heard the shots and ran from the porche of his office to Patton. He was on the sidewalk of Patton, near the alley that's halfway between Jefferson and 10th Street, when he saw the man running towards him with the revolver.

Tippit's killer left the scene directly after the shots. The distance he needed to cover before getting to Callaway, was from the car to the corner of 10th/Patton, which - walking at normal speed - would have taken him 20 seconds. You know this because somebody timed it in a video you were in that is on YouTube. Then he had to walk halfway down Patton (about 200 feet) to where Callaway was. That would have taken him another 20 seconds, maybe 30. You know this, you've been there yourself, you've seen just how short a distance it is. But here's a reminder;

CE 539 is a photograph of where Callaway was when he saw the killer running towards him

https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/pdf/WH17_CE_539.pdf

You can clearly see the houses of 10th street in the background.

After his encounter with the killer, which took no more that a couple of seconds, Callaway, according to his testimony, ran towards 10th street. If you add on some seconds here and there, you get to around 90 seconds to 2 minutes maximum that it took Callaway to get to 10th street and on the radio after the shots.

00:00:00      Tippit is killed
      
00:00:30      Killer reaches the corner of 10th street and Patton
      
00:00:50      Killer reaches the alley halfway between 10th street and Jefferson
                   Callaway, who is on the other side of the street, sees the man running towards him
      
00:01:10      Callaway starts running to 10th street
      
00:01:30      Callaway arrives at 10th street
      
00:01:35      Callaway checks on Tippit and sees he's dead
      
00:01:50      Callaway gets on the radio

I don't know what you mean by "a couple of minutes" but anything more than 2 minutes, you are going to have to explain to me.

I'm being lazy today.  Can you post this please?

Actually, no I can't post this because I don't know how. But I'm sure somebody else can post the document. I've seen it being posted before.

Edit: I found a copy on line for you.

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth338568/m1/7/

[Jerry Freeman]

They're not online anywhere.  I listened to the unedited tapes with Dale Myers at his house back in September.

I have a copy of the recording. How do you really know that they were "unedited"?

[Bill Brown]

You really need to read his testimony more closely, Bill.

Callaway didn't wait on the porche of his office to watch the killer "trek all the way down Patton to Jefferson". He ran towards 10th street and was about halfway down Patton when he encountered the killer. If he had waited for only a minute he would have missed the killer completely.

In his testimony and his first day affidavit Callaway said he heard the shots and ran from the porche of his office to Patton. He was on the sidewalk of Patton, near the alley that's halfway between Jefferson and 10th Street, when he saw the man running towards him with the revolver.

Tippit's killer left the scene directly after the shots. The distance he needed to cover before getting to Callaway, was from the car to the corner of 10th/Patton, which - walking at normal speed - would have taken him 20 seconds. You know this because somebody timed it in a video you were in that is on YouTube. Then he had to walk halfway down Patton (about 200 feet) to where Callaway was. That would have taken him another 20 seconds, maybe 30. You know this, you've been there yourself, you've seen just how short a distance it is. But here's a reminder;

CE 539 is a photograph of where Callaway was when he saw the killer running towards him

https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/pdf/WH17_CE_539.pdf

You can clearly see the houses of 10th street in the background.

After his encounter with the killer, which took no more that a couple of seconds, Callaway, according to his testimony, ran towards 10th street. If you add on some seconds here and there, you get to around 90 seconds to 2 minutes maximum that it took Callaway to get to 10th street and on the radio after the shots.

00:00:00      Tippit is killed
      
00:00:30      Killer reaches the corner of 10th street and Patton
      
00:00:50      Killer reaches the alley halfway between 10th street and Jefferson
                   Callaway, who is on the other side of the street, sees the man running towards him
      
00:01:10      Callaway starts running to 10th street
      
00:01:30      Callaway arrives at 10th street
      
00:01:35      Callaway checks on Tippit and sees he's dead
      
00:01:50      Callaway gets on the radio

I don't know what you mean by "a couple of minutes" but anything more than 2 minutes, you are going to have to explain to me.

Actually, no I can't post this because I don't know how. But I'm sure somebody else can post the document. I've seen it being posted before.

Edit: I found a copy on line for you.

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth338568/m1/7/

You really should refrain from telling me that I need to read Callaway's testimony a little more closely.  You're wrong.

I said "Before making his way up to the patrol car, Callaway first watched Oswald make his trek all the way down Patton to Jefferson."  This is exactly what Callaway says in his testimony (among other places).  To say that Callaway began making his way up to Tenth without first having watched the killer go all the way to Jefferson (even watched The killer turn west onto Jefferson) is a mistake.

You're also wrong when you claim that Callaway was already up to and near the alley (located at the halfway point in the block) when he encountered the killer.  Callaway went from the porch out to Patton and was a good fifty feet south of the alley when the killer passed.  The very photo you linked to (CE-539), which you claim shows Callaway near the alley, clearly shows Callaway standing well south of the alley.  In the image, do you see the brick building across the street and up the street somewhat?  That is exactly where the alley is, which is the halfway point down the block.  You need to orient yourself on this better than you have.

[Bill Brown]

Actually, no I can't post this because I don't know how. But I'm sure somebody else can post the document. I've seen it being posted before.

Edit: I found a copy on line for you.

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth338568/m1/7/

As I thought (which is why I asked you to post it), you were incorrect when you said that the document says Tippit was pronounced DOA at 1:15.

The document states that Tippit was pronounced DOA.

The document also states that the time of death was 1:15.

Nothing about him being pronounced DOA at 1:15.

This matters.

[Bill Brown]

Thanks, I wasn’t having any luck searching online. So, it doesn’t appear to be a defect in my searching. Did Dale happen to explain or expound on any of the details of his methods to you?

Hi Charles.  It was information overload (in a good way) during the two days I spent up there with Dale Myers (as well as with Todd Vaughan).

I'm sure I can answer your question if you can be more specific.

[Martin Weidmann]

You really should refrain from telling me that I need to read Callaway's testimony a little more closely.  You're wrong.

I said "Before making his way up to the patrol car, Callaway first watched Oswald make his trek all the way down Patton to Jefferson."  This is exactly what Callaway says in his testimony (among other places).  To say that Callaway began making his way up to Tenth without first having watched the killer go all the way to Jefferson (even watched The killer turn west onto Jefferson) is a mistake.

You're also wrong when you claim that Callaway was already up to and near the alley (located at the halfway point in the block) when he encountered the killer.  Callaway went from the porch out to Patton and was a good fifty feet south of the alley when the killer passed.  The very photo you linked to (CE-539), which you claim shows Callaway near the alley, clearly shows Callaway standing well south of the alley.  In the image, do you see the brick building across the street and up the street somewhat?  That is exactly where the alley is, which is the halfway point down the block.  You need to orient yourself on this better than you have.

You really should refrain from telling me that I need to read Callaway's testimony a little more closely.  You're wrong.

You really actually believe that you are right all the time, don't you?

I said "Before making his way up to the patrol car, Callaway first watched Oswald make his trek all the way down Patton to Jefferson."  This is exactly what Callaway says in his testimony (among other places). To say that Callaway began making his way up to Tenth without first having watched the killer go all the way to Jefferson (even watched The killer turn west onto Jefferson) is a mistake.

No. That's not what Callaway said in his testimony. He did not say that he watched the man running to Jefferson before making his way to 10th street. Callaway's view of the man was unobstructed all the way down Patton. In his testimony, he said that the last time he saw the man he was on Jefferson.

Mr. DULLES. May I ask what course he was taking when you last saw him?
Mr. CALLAWAY. He was going west on Jefferson Street.

He does not say he was still in the same location when he saw that.

You're also wrong when you claim that Callaway was already up to and near the alley (located at the halfway point in the block) when he encountered the killer.  Callaway went from the porch out to Patton and was a good fifty feet south of the alley when the killer passed.

The distances we are talking about are minimal. I said "about halfway down" and "near the alley that's halfway between Jefferson and 10th Street". If you want to place him 50 feet closer to Jefferson, feel free to do so. It only takes a couple of seconds to run 50 feet extra. It makes very little difference for the duration of the events.

But even if you are right about this, which I don't think you are (IMO it's just another one of your word games), and Callaway waited - before running to 10th street - until the killer got to Jefferson, we're only talking, at best, about an additional 30 seconds for him to get to the scene.

I estimated he arrived at 10th street between 90 seconds and 2 minutes after the shots, so those additional 30 seconds are still well within the range of my estimated times.

You had Callaway arriving at the scene "a couple of minutes" after the shots, without explaining what that means exactly, and you have not provided any information that shows that conclusion is wrong.

You need to orient yourself on this better than you have.

There you go again... Typical Bill Brown. First telling me to refrain from telling you what to do and then, somewhat hypocritically, proceding to tell me what I should do.