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Author Topic: On The Trail Of Delusion  (Read 56314 times)

Online Robert Reeves

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Re: Was Edgar Eugene Bradley One of the Three Tramps?
« Reply #256 on: September 11, 2021, 12:56:41 AM »
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“I wrote this book to expose the full truth about Jim Garrison and the danger of conspiracy thinking. Several authors have tried to rehabilitate Garrison, and I wanted to use primary documents to show just how deluded he was.”

I've been reading your website Fred. I had a look to see what else you are utterly convinced are facts about the assassination of JFK. I'm most fascinated by the three tramp photos, so I've almost gobbled up every little detail I can find. I'm trying to figure out who those people in the photos are. Also, what they were doing actually on the day. You know, trying to picture what those tramps would be really like in real life (I know all we have are 7 photos).

For instance, the tallest tramp, some say is Charles Harrelson. I picture in my mind why he's dressed like a scruffy sort of looking guy, how he got to be a tramp, a hobo. His outfit, it looks contrived. His hair though kinda longish, isn't really all that wild and unlike what most guys hair was back then when they didn't try. The thing that sticks out the most to me are his clothes, the look contrived, to me. Like someone went and picked some random outfit for a guy they knew was 6'2" and over 200lbs. It's like they got his outfit from a wardrobe dept. So what would a fit, and tall looking guy, someone with obviously a lot of swagger (remember the picture where the tallest tramp is smirking just after the so-called Lansdale character passes by)



Smirking guy just strolling along without a care in the world (btw I'd say tallest tramp is late 20's/early 30's). Surely one of those arresting officers explained to the three tramps ''president Kennedy has just been shot in the head and as you are hiding in the train carriages not far from where several witnesses claimed to see a shooter, you are now being arrested as suspects for his murder''. Am I wrong to think these cops might have just hit the bloody jackpot and possibly just solved who shot JFK? Because how were those arresting cops to know that one, or all, these 'tramps' were not the assassin?

Surely the Tramp's were arrested on the assumption they'd committed a crime? Surely those 3 individuals were warned they might be in some serious spombleprofglidnoctobuns if they haven't got their story straight? I'm failing to not see in my mind very motivated bunch of police officers stumbling across three suspicious looking characters hiding in a box car just behind the grassy knoll in the railway yard literary hundreds of feet away from where JFK's brains just got blown out. These cops would have been all over these guys. Making sure they'd got every single detail written down and kept to solve the most famous murder case in U.S history! Heroes for life! Eternity!

The reason I know they would be busy trying to solve the murder mystery at this point is: Oswald hasn't been arrested at this point. Word hasn't got to these arresting officers.

Lets say it's possibly an hour after the murder? Well Wise knew JFK was possibly dead, because he stated in 1992 (full document below)



So we know officer Wise is already thinking about the assassination of character he'll face if these suspects escape from his custody, right? that and how his bank balance is going to swell. BTW Wise admitted he was friendly with Jack Ruby before becoming a cop. That he regularly danced at Ruby's night club with. The same cop who was friends with Ruby was there when Ruby shot Oswald dead. Yes he was also in the basement. And guess what? Wise was then sent to Parkland to guard Oswald. Yeah weird innit! He was everywhere, but yet nowhere. When he escorted the three tramps across dealey plaza he was so sure they weren't potential dangerous murderers (of the president of the United States) or why else did he let them all walk to Decker's without handcuffs. Yeah yeah there's a lot of pictures of people arrested that day not being handcuffed. But these guys were seen running from the back of the fence area onto the train tracks and getting into carriage. How comes when Wise was asked by the HSCA he never gave as much detail about the three tramps as he did in the 1992 interviews with the FBI? Wise knew something big was coming (Stone's movie) and the three tramps were going to be several central characters paraded on the big screen to appear as 'the conspirators'. Wise admitted to the HSCA the last time he saw the piece of paper with the three tramps names written on it was in 1966. That was the last time he recollected their names. It wasn't until that Doyle tv character appeared on some tv show and the three tramps names scrolled along at the bottom of the screen he remembered all of their names. Hallelujah



So this takes me back to the tallest tramp swaggering around dealey plaza like his shiit don't stink. Where the hell did he get the confidence to feel so safe and secure?

What type of person could feel very secure and smirk for the cameras in probably the most stressful moments of your entire life?

A lot of people say that smirk is kinda reminiscent of Woody's old man smirking during the judge John Wood trial.



I think the tall Tramp (I actually sub-consciously typed Trump lol and had to delete it) he smirks because he knows soon as his ass gets through Decker's doors he on the way to walking back out again without anyone EVER! really knowing the identity (at least officially). It's like the tallest tramp knows he's got the people covering his ass. People with the expertise to produce cover-stories and make them stick. He's protected by a world of deniability? Worst case scenario, he'll up and die, and get posted to some place in south America with a few hundred K

It turns out the tallest tramp has every reason to feel confident nothing is going to happen to him in the future. Marvin Wise admitted in 1992 that the three tramps he arrested and escorted across dealey plaza were released, on the same day they were detained! But yet we're supposed to believe some character called Doyle is the smallest tramp.  He admits to being released some 2 or three days later. The arrest sheet with his name on says the 24th November. So how can he be the cop arrested by Wise & co?

Wise says the three tramps were released almost immediately. Released on the afternoon of the assassination.

His FBI statement is there to read.



The tramps were released on the day of the assassination. Facts. Or is the cop lying?! Or senile!?

Were there more than one group of tramps arrested? possibly. A.J. Weberman claims the three tramps were being escorted through dealey plaza in the Mentesana film. I think he's right, some people are being escorted through the plaza by what looks like a cop with a white cap and several others. There's a large crowd.



I don't agree with who A.J Weberman believes are the three tramps. But I think he was right, these are possibly some of the tramps being moved from the train yard across the plaza.

The idea a group of tramps were arrested quite close to the shooting fits with what DPD discovered three tramps arrest sheets that state -- they were arrested 'right after JFK shot' below



I've seen an interview with Doyle where he says they were arrested right away and the crowd were baying for them (when I find it i'll post it). That reminds me, Where's Fred's documents to back up his assertion Doyle and other surviving tramp alive (at the time) confessed they were actually the tramps in the photos?

The area around the TSBDB was roped off. The were no great crowds of people in the three tramp photos. It was a very controlled situation to which they were walking from behind the grassy knoll area. There was a very select group of people there. Possibly all of them on the same page.

You've got the 3 strangers photographed, firstly, at the trade mart.



Look at that guys poster and his flag, says ''Vote right, Vote White, Anyone but the NAACP's Kennedy's''. I think this might be some racist folks. And these three are in the shizznit location with em and captured on camera.





Could be journalists just covering the drama?

But why she always covering her friggin' face!?!?!?!



She's probably a 9/10. Why is she covering her face? very annoying! I can't find a clear shot of her face anywhere!



Dude, the way she avoids the camera is like a fricken pro!



Dude she was everywhere! like totally in all the right places! I spombleprofglidnoctobunst you not!



So, 1. you got her, and the two gringos she came with. 2, you got these tramps ménage à trois going on 3,  Marvin Wise wearing a very suspicious ear device, aka cotton wool, below


3a, only that bloody dark complected guy that every says is actually 'the cuban''. Or whatever the hell Jack White named him. (Jack effing White named everything in JFK folklore!) Jack created all the most amazing conspiracy theories of all times. But what I don't get is why Jack White knew there was a high possibility he knew the name of the real dark person stood with Umbrella Man. Dark skinned, dark complected man, some say (aka Jack). Dark skinned guy was obviously just throwing his arms up in the air like that in a public display of love and appreciation. He was so into his fandom of the man that was in the process of being shot at, tunnel vision, somehow his senses went into denial. He sat down calmly on the curb next to Umbrella Man, and mumbled some spombleprofglidnoctobunst about 'them just shot the president'' or something. Or whatever Umbrella Man said he heard come out of the lips of dark skinned guy that Jack White says is a Cuban.

He's also photographed out front, not only is he with these 3 new characters, who first appeared at the trade mart, and they mooched it down to TSBD building and watched the drama going on there for a while. Got behind the ropes and was in the VIP section. From all accounts. Only the gang got themselves into the roped off section.



All the oinks had to gawp like common punter's watching tricks at the circus.

That bloody dark skinned dark complected whatever Jack White named him guy who might have been a Cuban, he bloody shows up now gawping at the circus act. Somethang is a COOKEN!



So I was in the process of lookin' at that 9/10 woman I said was all over the place. But she somehow never showed her entire face. And like a thunderbolt, a thunderbolt of inspiration from Jack White, I spotted the dark skinned dark complected guy was right in the middle of some very dodgy tramp business, and he's lucky, BECAUSE he might just be lucky and not get arrested too -- as he was acting very very suspicious = my opinion (not Jack's) -- I am open-minded to Oswald being a shooter, BTW.

So yeah I was staring at the woman in the tramps stuff photographs and I noticed there's a dark skinned person lurking over her left shoulder. To my amazement -- I am kidding -- I thought ''that looks like that dark skinned/complected guy Jack White said was Cuban''. And I actually said, to myself, ''Oh right, so he's actually not from Cuba, and he's actually from Oklahoma!'' Holy Crap!



Well, you can't really see a face, it's just blobby pixels. The an outline of a human head, possibly wearing a black cap and white/light jacket. Dark trousers, or pants - for our American viewers. And finished off with lovely shoes, I think they're boots, possibly alligator skinned, Jack White said!

But look, is this the dark skinned guy, that was stood with Umbrella Man, just a few acts earlier in this epic movie?



What is this geezer now doing out front at the TSBD with these mugs?



It's him? innit? FRED!??



What a bloody cheek this geezer got just walking out front with all this tramp stuff going on around him.

Surely they'll do sumthing to his face and make it unintelligible. Bingo!



Owned! can't identify him! suckers!

But Jack White actually knew this dark skinned guy was somewhere 'out front'. Cos I read it in his documents posted online. I just looked hard at the tramp photo's and he was right! He actually is 'out front' when he said he was, and who he said was with, also, they are there!

Did I tell you about the time Jack White sent a picture of some guy he was told was Umbrella Man. So Jack then sent the photo to Tom Wilson (the guy in The Men Who Killed Kennedy) The guy that said JFK was shot from the drain. Yeah so Jack White sends Tom Wilson a photo of someone accused of being the Umbrella Man, and Tom Wilson says ''Jack the person you say might actually being Umbrella Man comes back as being a 98.2% probability match". Well Jack's now about to tell everything to the sixth floor museum and break the case open! Not so fast!



I don't think many people know this is the picture Tom Wilson created for Jack White, using his magic computer programming skills he showed JFK was shot from the drain. And using this special magic computer software he also knew the man in the photo Jack sent him was Umbrella Man. To a 98.2% certainty!

But anyway, lets get back to the three tramps. I am interested to know why Harold, or is it Hereld, I'll call him Harold Doyle, for now. Why did this guy end up a stinky tramp drinking booze with two other charmers and running away from the fence area where several eye-witnesses claimed someone shot at JFK. How did someone like Doyle become a tramp and years later have to defend himself as being innocent and not being part of a conspiracy to shoot JFK? I don't really buy it.



So Doyle, above, he's considered by lone shooter people to be just some random tramp that got caught up in this nasty assassination business. And 20 something years later he just appears to say ''the tramps had nothing to do with it'' (that's what you meant, Fred)

This is Harold Doyle.











So how did this guy end up a drunk hobo on a train in Texas?? and mixed up in the most notorious shooting in American history!?


Did Fred Litwin interview Harold Doyle, or talk to his kids? or any family members to find out if he was actually the man in the photo's with the cops??

How comes Fred Litwin goes around making announcements on his website/blog that he's solved the three tramps identity and yet he doesn't have the proof to back it up?

Well Fred?

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Was Edgar Eugene Bradley One of the Three Tramps?
« Reply #256 on: September 11, 2021, 12:56:41 AM »


Offline Tom Scully

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Re: Was Edgar Eugene Bradley One of the Three Tramps?
« Reply #257 on: September 11, 2021, 06:47:41 AM »
“I wrote this book to expose the full truth about Jim Garrison and the danger of conspiracy thinking. Several authors have tried to rehabilitate Garrison, and I wanted to use primary documents to show just how deluded he was.”

I've been reading your website Fred. I had a look to see what else you are utterly convinced are facts about the assassination of JFK. I'm most fascinated by the three tramp photos, so I've almost gobbled up every little detail I can find. I'm trying to figure out who those people in the photos are. Also, what they were doing actually on the day. You know, trying to picture what those tramps would be really like in real life (I know all we have are 7 photos). ....

Did Fred Litwin interview Harold Doyle, or talk to his kids? or any family members to find out if he was actually the man in the photo's with the cops??
.....
How comes Fred Litwin goes around making announcements on his website/blog that he's solved the three tramps identity and yet he doesn't have the proof to back it up?

Well Fred?

Robert, it is a fascinating "area of study". On July 28, 2018, I posted,

Quote
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,948.msg24420.html#msg24420
....
If even the BS is rife with coincidence, what are the odds of learning anything actually new and reliably verifiable?

Quote
http://jfkfacts.org/allen-dulles-first-ceo-of-the-secret-government/#comment-842336
sgt_doom
December 24, 2015 at 7:12 pm
Seriously no offense intended, Roy, but you are falling for the endless misdirection put out there ? first those so-called tramps Harrelson, Holt, etc., next they really are tramps, and on and on.
I attempt to explain this in my fumbling way at the site below (please search on ?assassins ball? and you?ll find it ? rather lengthy, so did not want to take up too much space at Mr. Morley?s outstanding site! (with links to declassified docs, etc.)
https://web.archive.org/web/20151225102900/http://www.zerohedge.com:80/news/2015-12-21/whistleblower-exposes-exactly-how-government-spies-your-cell-phone?page=2
(Four international assassins: on the grassy knoll, turned-up collar was Moise Maschkivitzan and Lazlo the Hungarian, third tramp really was a tramp [not Hunt], and on the overpass, Jean Souetre, and in the Dal-Tex Building, most likely Lucien Conein, the CIA assassin: two Frenchmen, on Belgian Jew, and a Hungarian.)
Nothing like all the disinformation they spread!
....

I posted on the page linked in the quote box above that I was able to prove that the closest relatives of Moise Maschkivitzan, allegedly ZR/Rifle,  lived in 1963 within a mile of where Chauncey Holt claimed in his book he resided in Thousand Oaks, CA.

I've done at least a hundred comparisons using this Microsoft Azure demo website technology
since last November. I'm sharing it because it is the most sensitive and reliable of several I've tried.
It is a tool to obtain leads, reliable enough to confirm or eliminate hunches, not quite ready for trial court demo.

https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/services/cognitive-services/face/#overview







« Last Edit: September 11, 2021, 07:16:53 AM by Tom Scully »

Online Robert Reeves

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Re: Was Edgar Eugene Bradley One of the Three Tramps?
« Reply #258 on: September 11, 2021, 09:41:14 AM »
Tom, me and you are thinking alike. I shoved Doyle's mush through a facial analyzer and it also came out with some results. Sadly, I can't find his results anywhere on the program I used. But I have the guy that looks similarly to Doyle but isn't allegedly/actually him.



The person in the photo above is [unknown]. I don't know anything about it, other than someone must have posted it and said it looks like the smaller tramp and so I saved it. I cannot find the details about this person.

But anyway he matches the Doyle face pretty good using some website I found. To me it looks like the smaller Tramp more than any photos I've seen.

It was compared to this pic of the tramp below





That is a little bit hard to read, but says 81.6% match. For whatever good that does us.

I believe the pic was posted in the same context as the alleged interpen guys supposedly caught on camera, Danny Arce and co





When I saved this photo [below] it was titled Charles Rogers.



It could just be the Doyle guy.

Was the small tramp guy filmed walking past Oswald down in New Orleans

I believe Jack White noticed this



I'll tell you what, if I hadn't noticed the three tramps were released on the same day that JFK was killed, I'd have said that Doyle character is the small tramp in the photos. But their arrest sheets clearly state they were released on the 24th. Doyle person even said this on camera (2 or 3 days) he says. And the arrest sheet states they were arrested ''right after JFK shot''. But the tramps in the photos are shot (approximately is all we have) after 1pm.

It would be very interesting if anyone could locate the identity of this person. below. And also, what is the context to this person being photographed. Is it one of those dudes down in the swamps. The Interpen lot!




And if you throw that Lois Gibson (forensic and facial expert) stuff into the mix too, well it's then even cloudier.









Big claim for Fred Litwin to make - that he solved all these puzzles.
 
« Last Edit: September 11, 2021, 09:43:03 AM by Robert Reeves »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Was Edgar Eugene Bradley One of the Three Tramps?
« Reply #258 on: September 11, 2021, 09:41:14 AM »


Offline Tom Scully

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Re: Was Edgar Eugene Bradley One of the Three Tramps?
« Reply #259 on: September 12, 2021, 11:32:42 AM »
Tom, me and you are thinking alike. I shoved Doyle's mush through a facial analyzer and it also came out with some results. Sadly, I can't find his results anywhere on the program I used. But I have the guy that looks similarly to Doyle but isn't allegedly/actually him. ...
....
........
Big claim for Fred Litwin to make - that he solved all these puzzles.

Robert, great minds, I guess!

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth190294/


https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/285979588/


Disclosure, there was a William Abrams, b. 1915  in this tree. I created a new entry matching the obituary details
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pedigree/landscape/G8FS-64V






Are we done, AFA the old tramp, or are hold-outs claiming the FBI altered the birthdate on the arrest record?
Abrams was difficult to find on ancestrylibrary.com because until the obituary, in census and other records he went
by William, likely his actual given name. In 1910 - 1940 census records, his parents were Henry and Maggie.

I am satisfied, or I would not invest the time presenting these details...
« Last Edit: September 12, 2021, 11:34:27 AM by Tom Scully »


JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Was Edgar Eugene Bradley One of the Three Tramps?
« Reply #260 on: September 12, 2021, 05:48:42 PM »



Offline Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: Was Lee Harvey Oswald a Man of the Right?
« Reply #262 on: September 12, 2021, 09:51:29 PM »
https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/was-lee-harvey-oswald-a-man-of-the-right
I guess we can debate whether he truly understood and embraced Marxism or whether it was simply something he found that answered his questions as to why the world he grew up in was so miserable and so unjust. Which, in his defense, it largely was. Perhaps a bit of both (and I do think some of the key concepts of Marxism were understood by him in some detail; if you correct his spelling and grammatical errors in his writings, as Noman Mailer did in his book on Oswald, you can see that they're somewhat sophisticated).

But the evidence that he disliked, indeed hated, the American political and economic systems is, for me, conclusive. He found it unjust and irredeemable. Indeed, he told Michael Paine shortly before the assassination that the American system had to be completely overthrown, that incremental changes would not work. It could not reformed; it had to be replaced. And in a Marxist/leftist type direction.

The only response to all of this is, as Weisberg and Garrison argued, that it was an act or a cover; that because his favorite TV show as a teenager was about a man pretending to be a Marxist (Herbert Philbrick) that he too was acting out this fake life. Either for his own bizarre reasons or because he was directed to do so by others. I find it quite unlikely that someone would direct him at the age of 16 to create this cover or "legend." For what purpose? But then again I'm not a JFK conspiracist.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2021, 10:21:49 PM by Steve M. Galbraith »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Was Lee Harvey Oswald a Man of the Right?
« Reply #262 on: September 12, 2021, 09:51:29 PM »


Offline Jon Banks

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Re: Was Lee Harvey Oswald a Man of the Right?
« Reply #263 on: September 13, 2021, 01:44:35 AM »
No, he was a Leftwinger. A Liberal who maybe agreed with some aspects of Marxism.

What most Conservative Americans don’t seem to understand about the Left is that there’s a long anti-Communist tradition among Western Liberals. Some of the most rabid anti-Communists of the postwar era were Liberals (ie George Orwell).

Based on Oswald’s writing and things he told people close to him after he returned to the US from the USSR, he wasn’t a Communist by that time and didn’t view the Soviet system as superior to the American political system. In the summer of 63’ he wrote that ‘he chose the LESSER evil by returning to the United States’.

He rejected Racial Segregation and supported the Civil Rights movement which put him in line with most Liberals in the early 60s. It also makes sense that he agreed with Kennedy’s support of MLK and Civil Rights.

When I look at Oswald’s biography, the biggest thing that sticks out for me are his numerous friends and associates who were rightwing or rabid anti-Comminists.

I can’t name any friends or associates of Oswald in the US who were Far-Left or communists. Isn’t that odd? The Paines are close to the only known Far-Left associates of Oswald and I suspect that they were Liberal anti-Communists.

As for his support of Cuba/Castro, I’m not certain that it was genuine or based on devotion to communism. Castro was still a darling of the Left in the early-60s. People on the Left were still optimistic that he might be a great leader for Cuba at that time.

Castro, when he visited Harlem in the early 1960s, called out the hypocrisy of the US in terms of the way Black Americans were treated. The contradictions were noted by Dr. Martin Luther King, who opposed imperialism and colonialism:

Quote
Cuba’s willingness to exploit the United States’s contradictory foreign policy position and domestic racial turmoil helped spur the White House to resort to terrorism and other illegal, covert reprisals against the island nation. It also reinforced the repressive instincts already being brought to bear against American blacks. Ten days after Martin Luther King, Jr. denounced the botched Bay of Pigs invasion as “a disservice … to the whole of humanity” and called on the United States to “join the revolution” against “colonialism, reactionary dictatorship, and systems of exploitation” the world over, the Senate convened a committee investigating Cuban influence on American blacks

https://newrepublic.com/article/131793/castro-came-harlem


I tend to view Oswald and the JFK assassination within the broader context of what was happening in the US in those times. I don’t know if others do this.


Even if we accept at face value that Oswald was a devoted Marxist or Communist when he was a naïve teenager, we're faced with the question of why he returned to the US. Most likely he became disillusioned with Soviet style communism while living in the USSR and his remarks in 1963 where he ridiculed communists and the Soviet Union were genuine...
« Last Edit: September 13, 2021, 02:42:11 PM by Jon Banks »