The First Shot

[John Corbett]

Your explanation ignores the fact the Z-film shows JBC began looking over his right shoulder at Z164

JBC on the other hand told us what he did in reaction to the hearing the first shot and we see him do just that at Z164.

This is a falsehood.
in your delusion you are unaware that we all have access to the Z-film.
The one and only time JBC looks over his right shoulder is after he has been shot @z222/z223.
AT NO POINT BEFORE THIS DOES HE EVEN ATTEMPT TO LOOK OVER HIS RIGHT SHOULDER.
Do yourself a favour and watch the Zapruder film before making any more assinine 'observations'.

This from one of the most deluded contributors on this forum. At Z163 JBC is looking hard to his left.

https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z163.jpg

At Z164, he starts rotating his head to the right.

https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z164.jpg

By Z200, just before he disappears behind the sign, his head is turned hard to the right.

https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z200.jpg

All of this happened in the span of about two seconds.

[Dan O'meara]

This from one of the most deluded contributors on this forum. At Z163 JBC is looking hard to his left.

https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z163.jpg

At Z164, he starts rotating his head to the right.

https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z164.jpg

By Z200, just before he disappears behind the sign, his head is turned hard to the right.

https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z200.jpg

All of this happened in the span of about two seconds.

Yet again I have to waste my time correcting your incompetence.

JBC stated that he tried to look over his right shoulder after hearing the first shot, to check if JFK was OK.
It is Corbett's assertion that the Z-film shows JBC attempting to look OVER HIS RIGHT SHOULDER, just as he testified to doing.
It's my assertion that at no point before JBC is shot at z222/z223 does he make an attempt to look over his right shoulder to check on JFK.
Let's see who is being honest about this.

JBC is looking to his left around z163 (Corbett likes to say "hard" to his left or "hard" to his right, in a truly desperate attempt to equate what we actually see in the Z-film with what he would like us to see. It's enough to say he is just looking to his left).
JBC quickly turns his head to the right, presumably in response to some kind of stimulus, and by z169 he is looking to his right, in the direction of the crowds lining Elm Street:



Obviously, it is Corbett's contention that the stimulus JBC is responding to is the sound of a shot and we are seeing JBC in the process of turning to look OVER HIS RIGHT SHOULDER. In fact, the stimulus is very well documented and I will get to it in a bit.
Strangely, if we are to accept Corbett's falsehoods, JBC reacts quickly by turning to look to the right, but then he stops moving any further to the right. But he's supposed to be worried about whether JFK has been shot or not. He's supposed to be trying to look over his right shoulder (JFK is smiling and starts waving btw, so he's OK).
But by z193 his head is in exactly the position it was in z169. He is still looking towards the crowds lining Elm Street as he passes behind the Stemmons sign:



Why has he stopped turning his head if he is desperately trying to check on JFK?
Surely, if Corbett is to be believed, JBC should be straining around to look over his right shoulder as he travels behind the Stemmons sign. By the time he emerges from behind the Stemmons sign he should be looking over his right shoulder.
But that's not what we see in the Z-film.
What we actually see is that JBC is in exactly the same position he was as he passed behind the Stemmons sign. He is still looking towards the crowds lining Elm Street:



As usual, Corbett is talking nonsense.
The Z-film does NOT show JBC trying to look over his right shoulder at all.
It merely shows him looking in the direction of the crowds lining Elm Street to his right.
There is no disputing this (by rational people, that is)

So what is the stimulus that JBC is responding to if not a gun shot?
We see JBC turning to look to his right between z160 and z169. Within less than two seconds all four occupants of the back of the limo all turn to face their right, looking in the direction of the crowds lining Elm Street. All four occupants appear to be responding to the same stimulus, JFK begins to smile and wave at the people on his right (a very strange reaction to hearing a gunshot!)

This is from an article in the Dallas Morning News entitled, "Witness From the News Describes Assassination", written by Mary Woodward the day after the assassination [lifted from Pat Speer's website]:

"Four of us from Women’s News, Maggie Brown, Aurelia Alonzo, my roommate Ann Donaldson, and myself had decided to spend our lunch hour by going to see the President. We took our lunch along – some crackers and apples – and started walking down Houston Street. We decided to cross Elm and wait there on the grassy slope just east of the Triple Underpass, since there weren’t very many people there and we could get a better view. We had been waiting about half an hour when the first motorcycle escorts came by, followed shortly by the President’s car. The President was looking straight ahead and we were afraid we would not get to see his face. But we started clapping and cheering and both he and Mrs. Kennedy turned, and smiled and waved, directly at us, it seemed. Jackie was wearing a beautiful pink suit with beret to match. Two of us, who had seen the President last during the final weeks of the 1960 campaign, remarked almost simultaneously how relaxed and robust he looked. As it turned out, we were almost certainly the last faces he noticed in the crowd. After acknowledging our cheers, he faced forward again and suddenly there was a horrible, ear-shattering noise coming from behind us and a little to the right.

When we examine the Zapruder film there is only one moment when both JFK and Jackie (and JBC and Nellie) are looking toward the crowds lining Elm Street to their right and it is when they both begin to turn around z170. This is the moment Woodward is describing when she states "both he [JFK] and Mrs. Kennedy turned, and smiled and waved, directly at us..."
I have cobbled together a couple of Z-frames to illustrate this moment. I've used z152, which shows Woodward's position and overlaid z170, the moment when Jackie and JFK begin to turn to their right:



The moment when Woodward and friends call out, making all four occupants of the limo turn to their right, is recalled by Vickie Adams in her WC testimony. Adams is watching the motorcade from the fourth floor and states:

"I watched the motorcade come down Main, as it turned from Main onto Houston, and watched it proceed around the corner on Elm, and apparently somebody in the crowd called to the late President, because he and his wife both turned abruptly and faced the building, so we had a very good view of both of them."

Both Adams and Woodward insist the first shot occurred shortly after this moment, ruling out an earlier shot.
JBC is NOT turning to look over his right shoulder because there has been no shot up to that point.
The first shot occurs at z222/z223, just after JFK has finished smiling and waving at Woodward and Co.

[John Corbett]

Yet again I have to waste my time correcting your incompetence.

That's funny coming from the most incompetent poster on this forum.

JBC stated that he tried to look over his right shoulder after hearing the first shot, to check if JFK was OK.
It is Corbett's assertion that the Z-film shows JBC attempting to look OVER HIS RIGHT SHOULDER, just as he testified to doing.
It's my assertion that at no point before JBC is shot at z222/z223 does he make an attempt to look over his right shoulder to check on JFK.

So you think JBC made up that part about looking over his shoulder after hearing the first shot.

Let's see who is being honest about this.

JBC is looking to his left around z163 (Corbett likes to say "hard" to his left or "hard" to his right, in a truly desperate attempt to equate what we actually see in the Z-film with what he would like us to see. It's enough to say he is just looking to his left).
JBC quickly turns his head to the right, presumably in response to some kind of stimulus, and by z169 he is looking to his right, in the direction of the crowds lining Elm Street:



Obviously, it is Corbett's contention that the stimulus JBC is responding to is the sound of a shot and we are seeing JBC in the process of turning to look OVER HIS RIGHT SHOULDER. In fact, the stimulus is very well documented and I will get to it in a bit.
Strangely, if we are to accept Corbett's falsehoods, JBC reacts quickly by turning to look to the right, but then he stops moving any further to the right. But he's supposed to be worried about whether JFK has been shot or not. He's supposed to be trying to look over his right shoulder (JFK is smiling and starts waving btw, so he's OK).

That is exactly what JBC said he did in response to the first shot. Had it not been for his testimony, I would not just assumed he turned in response to the shot. You have to put 2 and 2 together to figure this part out. Apparently, that's beyond your mental capacity.

But by z193 his head is in exactly the position it was in z169. He is still looking towards the crowds lining Elm Street as he passes behind the Stemmons sign:



Why has he stopped turning his head if he is desperately trying to check on JFK?

Surely, if Corbett is to be believed, JBC should be straining around to look over his right shoulder as he travels behind the Stemmons sign. By the time he emerges from behind the Stemmons sign he should be looking over his right shoulder.
But that's not what we see in the Z-film.

I guess your lack of critical thinking skills prevents you from figuring out that it is difficult for a large man in a small seat to turn his body. 

What we actually see is that JBC is in exactly the same position he was as he passed behind the Stemmons sign. He is still looking towards the crowds lining Elm Street:



As usual, Corbett is talking nonsense.
The Z-film does NOT show JBC trying to look over his right shoulder at all.
It merely shows him looking in the direction of the crowds lining Elm Street to his right.
There is no disputing this (by rational people, that is)

JBC told us in no uncertain terms that he turned to look over his right shoulder in reaction to hearing the gunshot. He also told us that unable to see JFK, he had started to turn back toward the front when he felt the second shot hit him in the back. That would have been about the same instant he reemerged from behind the sign. [/quote]

So what is the stimulus that JBC is responding to if not a gun shot?
We see JBC turning to look to his right between z160 and z169. Within less than two seconds all four occupants of the back of the limo all turn to face their right, looking in the direction of the crowds lining Elm Street. All four occupants appear to be responding to the same stimulus, JFK begins to smile and wave at the people on his right (a very strange reaction to hearing a gunshot!) [/quote]

None of the other passengers recognized the first shot for what it was. JBC was an experienced hunter and knew the sound of a rifle when he heard it. As he later said, he immediately thought it was an assassination attempt. That was confirmed about 5 seconds after the second shot hit him when he was showered with pieces of JFK's brain.

This is from an article in the Dallas Morning News entitled, "Witness From the News Describes Assassination", written by Mary Woodward the day after the assassination [lifted from Pat Speer's website]:

"Four of us from Women’s News, Maggie Brown, Aurelia Alonzo, my roommate Ann Donaldson, and myself had decided to spend our lunch hour by going to see the President. We took our lunch along – some crackers and apples – and started walking down Houston Street. We decided to cross Elm and wait there on the grassy slope just east of the Triple Underpass, since there weren’t very many people there and we could get a better view. We had been waiting about half an hour when the first motorcycle escorts came by, followed shortly by the President’s car. The President was looking straight ahead and we were afraid we would not get to see his face. But we started clapping and cheering and both he and Mrs. Kennedy turned, and smiled and waved, directly at us, it seemed. Jackie was wearing a beautiful pink suit with beret to match. Two of us, who had seen the President last during the final weeks of the 1960 campaign, remarked almost simultaneously how relaxed and robust he looked. As it turned out, we were almost certainly the last faces he noticed in the crowd. After acknowledging our cheers, he faced forward again and suddenly there was a horrible, ear-shattering noise coming from behind us and a little to the right.

You make the same mistake many people make. You assume every witness has accurately remembered the event which can't possibly be true, since there are multiple versions of what happened but the JFKA only happened one way. Witness statements should be believed if they can be corroborated. JBC's account is corroborated. He said he turned to the right in reaction to hearing the first shot and we see him do that beginning at Z164. We can interpret the conflicting witness accounts in one of two ways, either some of the people on Elm St. didn't recognize the first shot for what it was or JBC reacted to a gunshot that didn't happen. Since you are really, really bad at weighing evidence, it's not surprising that you chose the wrong one.

When we examine the Zapruder film there is only one moment when both JFK and Jackie (and JBC and Nellie) are looking toward the crowds lining Elm Street to their right and it is when they both begin to turn around z170. This is the moment Woodward is describing when she states "both he [JFK] and Mrs. Kennedy turned, and smiled and waved, directly at us..."
I have cobbled together a couple of Z-frames to illustrate this moment. I've used z152, which shows Woodward's position and overlaid z170, the moment when Jackie and JFK begin to turn to their right:



The moment when Woodward and friends call out, making all four occupants of the limo turn to their right, is recalled by Vickie Adams in her WC testimony. Adams is watching the motorcade from the fourth floor and states:

"I watched the motorcade come down Main, as it turned from Main onto Houston, and watched it proceed around the corner on Elm, and apparently somebody in the crowd called to the late President, because he and his wife both turned abruptly and faced the building, so we had a very good view of both of them."

Both Adams and Woodward insist the first shot occurred shortly after this moment, ruling out an earlier shot.
JBC is NOT turning to look over his right shoulder because there has been no shot up to that point.
The first shot occurs at z222/z223, just after JFK has finished smiling and waving at Woodward and Co.

Typical FUBAR analysis from you.

[Dan O'meara]

That's funny coming from the most incompetent poster on this forum.
So you think JBC made up that part about looking over his shoulder after hearing the first shot.
That is exactly what JBC said he did in response to the first shot. Had it not been for his testimony, I would not just assumed he turned in response to the shot. You have to put 2 and 2 together to figure this part out. Apparently, that's beyond your mental capacity.
I guess your lack of critical thinking skills prevents you from figuring out that it is difficult for a large man in a small seat to turn his body. 
JBC told us in no uncertain terms that he turned to look over his right shoulder in reaction to hearing the gunshot. He also told us that unable to see JFK, he had started to turn back toward the front when he felt the second shot hit him in the back. That would have been about the same instant he reemerged from behind the sign.

So what is the stimulus that JBC is responding to if not a gun shot?
We see JBC turning to look to his right between z160 and z169. Within less than two seconds all four occupants of the back of the limo all turn to face their right, looking in the direction of the crowds lining Elm Street. All four occupants appear to be responding to the same stimulus, JFK begins to smile and wave at the people on his right (a very strange reaction to hearing a gunshot!)

None of the other passengers recognized the first shot for what it was. JBC was an experienced hunter and knew the sound of a rifle when he heard it. As he later said, he immediately thought it was an assassination attempt. That was confirmed about 5 seconds after the second shot hit him when he was showered with pieces of JFK's brain.
You make the same mistake many people make. You assume every witness has accurately remembered the event which can't possibly be true, since there are multiple versions of what happened but the JFKA only happened one way. Witness statements should be believed if they can be corroborated. JBC's account is corroborated. He said he turned to the right in reaction to hearing the first shot and we see him do that beginning at Z164. We can interpret the conflicting witness accounts in one of two ways, either some of the people on Elm St. didn't recognize the first shot for what it was or JBC reacted to a gunshot that didn't happen. Since you are really, really bad at weighing evidence, it's not surprising that you chose the wrong one.
Typical FUBAR analysis from you.

You initially posted this:

"Your explanation ignores the fact the Z-film shows JBC began looking over his right shoulder at Z164"

Your assertion was that the Z-film showed JBC attempting to look "over his right shoulder", just as he'd testified he'd done.
I proved, using the same footage, that you are totally F0S and that JBC merely turned to his right in the Z-film and was NOT attempting to look over his right shoulder, as you had so ignorantly claimed.
But during the insane rant of your last post I couldn't help but notice a slight change in your claim:

"JBC's account is corroborated. He said he turned to the right in reaction to hearing the first shot and we see him do that beginning at Z164."


So, now he's not trying to look over his right shoulder, as you so stupidly claimed, he is now just turning to the right - exactly as I had argued!!
You have changed your argument to my argument and still think you are in the right 

I don't think I've ever seen anything so devious or cowardly attempted on this forum.
But that's no great surprise coming from someone as ignorant as yourself regarding anything about this case outside what you've swallowed down from the Warren Commission.
Stay in your lane.
Every single time you try to debate you end up looking like a buffoon.

[John Corbett]

You initially posted this:

"Your explanation ignores the fact the Z-film shows JBC began looking over his right shoulder at Z164"

Your assertion was that the Z-film showed JBC attempting to look "over his right shoulder", just as he'd testified he'd done.
I proved, using the same footage, that you are totally F0S and that JBC merely turned to his right in the Z-film and was NOT attempting to look over his right shoulder, as you had so ignorantly claimed.

The only thing you proved is that you are really, really bad at weighing evidence. That's a common trait among CTs but you are worse than most.

You completely ignore the fact that JBC turned to look over his shoulder in response to the first shot and was turning back to the front when he felt the bullet hit him.  The Z-film by itself doesn't tell us when the first shot struck nor does JBC's testimony but together they paint a clear picture of what happened.

[Dan O'meara]

The only thing you proved is that you are really, really bad at weighing evidence. That's a common trait among CTs but you are worse than most.

No, no...I've proved, for a fact, that you were talking utter sh!t.
That has 100% been proven (yet again).
Your assertion, that the Z-film shows JBC beginning to turn to look over his right shoulder @z164, has been crushed.
It's also been demonstrated that you can't accept this.
And that you're willing to stoop to some seriously devious and cowardly levels to try to 'win' the argument. So much so, you're willing to adopt the argument I presented as your own.
Could there be a clearer example of someone being served.

Not only did I provide a detailed analysis of the Z-film to demolish your piss-weak claim, I then provided evidence from multiple sources, demonstrating what JBC, JFK, Jackie and Nellie were actually responding to and, rather than actually provide evidence for a counter-argument, all you could say was "typical FUBAR analysis". Once again demonstrating your lack of character and unwillingness to actually engage with the evidence.

You completely ignore the fact that JBC turned to look over his shoulder in response to the first shot and was turning back to the front when he felt the bullet hit him.

I don't ignore this at all.
This thread contains a comprehensive analysis of Connally, his various testimonies/statements and how it relates to the Z-film.
All you do is cry 'but that's what he said' over and over.
I have proven that JBC is not turning to look over his right shoulder as you suggest he is. The Z-film is unequivocal about that.
There is one, and only one, moment when JBC turns to look over his right shoulder and that is AFTER he has been shot. JBC's statements on this matter DO NOT MATCH what we see in the Z-film, no matter how much you stamp your little foot.
JBC is also unequivocal that the gap between him hearing the first shot and being hit is "a split second", literally less than a second. He knows his rifles and he is convinced at first that there are multiple people firing or that someone is using an automatic rifle. He is saying that the gap was so small it could not have been done by a single person using a bolt action rifle, it had to be multiple people or a automatic. How do you explain that?
JBC studies the Z-film and chooses z234 (or z232) as the frame he is shot. How do you explain that?

The Z-film by itself doesn't tell us when the first shot struck nor does JBC's testimony but together they paint a clear picture of what happened.

It is clear from this childish statement that, even though you have been made to look a complete buffoon over this matter, even though your suggestion has been comprehensively destroyed, you still believe you are correct.
What kind of a mentality is that?