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Author Topic: The First Shot  (Read 571981 times)

Online Zeon Mason

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #1862 on: Today at 02:57:55 AM »
In Graves world, motorcycle noise only masked the unaimed  Z124 shot fired by the TSBD 6th floor shooter standing up despite that he had  stacked 3 boxes to use as a rifle rest. He did that because…  only Tom knows  :D

In Andrew’s world, the TSBD 6th floor shooter decided to shoot thru the tree foliage at Z190. Although no one else is reacting at Z190, the Willis girl has slowed down running and is about to stop completely at about Z200 and look back to TSBD. Apparently the SS agents were distracted by Graves world motorcycle “masking” noise even though that noise level is only 100db vs the 170db level of a rifle shot.

The Z190 1st shot went thru JFKs back and then exited his throat even though that vertical  angle is more downward than the Z224 angle. Somebody needs to tell Myers to fudge a new computer model to align a Z190 shot with the back and throat wound if Andrew’s theory ever becomes a new  LN standard.

The LNs are nuts  They say Oswald was an excellent marksman due to his USMC training never the less  he stood up and fired his 1st shot from TSBD missing the entire limo.  ::)
« Last Edit: Today at 02:59:05 AM by Zeon Mason »

Online Tom Graves

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #1863 on: Today at 03:25:14 AM »
In Graves' world, motorcycle noise only masked the unaimed Z-124 [sic; "Z-124"] shot fired by the TSBD 6th floor shooter

Dear Zeon,

Those motorcycles were accelerating and making a lot of noise when Oswald took his first, missing-everything, shot half-a-second before Zapruder resumed filming at Z-133 because they had just come around a near-hairpin turn.

D'oh!

-- Tom

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[Who was] standing up despite [the fact] that he had stacked 3 boxes to use as a rifle rest. He did that because …  only Tom knows.

Dear Zeon,

Oswald's first, missing-everything, shot half-a-second before Zapruder resumed filming at Z-133, was a steeply downward-angled shot that required him to stand / crouch while firing it.

He dropped down and used the boxes for his second and third "flatter," and therefore much easier, shots.

D'oh

-- Tom

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In Andrew’s world, the TSBD 6th floor shooter decided to shoot thru the tree foliage at Z-190. Although no one else is reacting at Z-190, the Willis girl has slowed down running and is about to stop completely at about Z-200 and look back to TSBD. Apparently the SS agents were distracted by Graves world motorcycle “masking” noise even though that noise level is only 100db vs the 170db level of a rifle shot.

Dear Zeon,

Between Z-140 and Z-150, Secret Service Agent John Ready leaned to his right and started turning his head around like a bobblehead doll, Secret Service Agent Glen Bennett leaned far to his right to look around Dave Powers to see if JFK was okay, and Secret Service Agent George Hickey, later saying he'd heard something like a firecracker, leaned far over the side of the car as though he wanted to barf or pick up some litter.

D'oh!

-- Tom

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The Z-190 1st shot went thru JFKs back and then exited his throat.


Dear Zeon,

What happened to that bullet after it exited JFK's throat?

Was it an evil, evil CIA ice bullet?

Did it melt?

Or was it a regular bullet and it hit JBC, too, and both he and JFK took about two seconds to react to it?

D'oh!

-- Tom

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The LNs are nuts. They say Oswald was an excellent marksman due to his USMC training. Nevertheless, he stood up and fired his 1st shot from TSBD's Sniper's Nest window and missed the entire limo.

Dear Zeon,

What was the angular velocity of JFK's head from the Sniper's Nest window's point of view?

How far would he have to miss JFK's head to miss the limo altogether?

D'oh!

-- Tom
« Last Edit: Today at 05:15:26 AM by Tom Graves »

Offline Jack Nessan

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #1864 on: Today at 04:25:26 AM »
Dear Freon,

Those motorcycles were accelerating and making a lot of noise when Oswald took his first, missing-everything, shot half-a-second before Zapruder resumed filming at Z-133 because they had just come around a near-hairpin turn.


The Limousine and the motorcycle escort did not accelerate after the turn. They resumed the 10-12mph speed. The limousine never accelerated until after the headshot.


Online Tom Graves

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #1865 on: Today at 05:11:53 AM »
The Limousine and the motorcycle escort did not accelerate after the turn. They resumed the 10-12mph speed. The limousine never accelerated until after the headshot.

Given the fact that Zapruder didn't resume filming (after a 17-second pause) until the limo was already about 75 feet down Elm Street, how do you know what it and the motorcycles did just after turning onto it?

Regardless, even if they weren't "gunning it," Harleys is Harleys.
« Last Edit: Today at 05:16:39 AM by Tom Graves »

Online John Corbett

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #1866 on: Today at 01:56:53 PM »
Given the fact that Zapruder didn't resume filming (after a 17-second pause) until the limo was already about 75 feet down Elm Street, how do you know what it and the motorcycles did just after turning onto it?

Regardless, even if they weren't "gunning it," Harleys is Harleys.

It would be quite odd if the limo didn't slow down when making a 110-degree turn, even from the speed they were traveling at through the downtown area.

Online Andrew Mason

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #1867 on: Today at 07:47:16 PM »
In Graves world, motorcycle noise only masked the unaimed  Z124 shot fired by the TSBD 6th floor shooter standing up despite that he had  stacked 3 boxes to use as a rifle rest. He did that because…  only Tom knows  :D

In Andrew’s world, the TSBD 6th floor shooter decided to shoot thru the tree foliage at Z190. Although no one else is reacting at Z190, the Willis girl has slowed down running and is about to stop completely at about Z200 and look back to TSBD.

But Oswald could have fired earlier as the car passed under the tree as the car was never really obscured from view.


We don't really know that he wouldn't have fired through a few leaves.  But he could have tracked JFK while he passed under the tree branches and fired as soon as he was clear.  That would have been here:



when JFK had just passed the lamp post and had not yet reached the Thornton sign.  That is between z190 and z200.

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The Z190 1st shot went thru JFKs back and then exited his throat even though that vertical  angle is more downward than the Z224 angle. Somebody needs to tell Myers to fudge a new computer model to align a Z190 shot with the back and throat wound if Andrew’s theory ever becomes a new  LN standard.
The difference in downward angle is not much - about three degrees, which is within the error range of the estimates of the angles that JFK was leaning forward from the horizontal as he travelled down Elm St. based in the Croft photo and his subsequent movements.  [Note: The FBI measured downward angles at z222 to be 20°23' and at z207 as 21°50' a difference of 1°27' over 15 frames. Extrapolating that another 15 frames back to z192 the downward horizontal angle would be 23°17', a difference of 2°54'.] See: CE884, 17H902.

Online Tom Graves

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #1868 on: Today at 08:24:38 PM »
But Oswald could have fired earlier as the car passed under the tree as the car was never really obscured from view.

[image deleted]

We don't really know that he wouldn't have fired through a few leaves.  But he could have tracked JFK while he passed under the tree branches and fired as soon as he was clear.  That would have been here:

[image deleted]

when JFK had just passed the lamp post and had not yet reached the Thornton sign.  That is between z190 and z200.
The difference in downward angle is not much - about three degrees, which is within the error range of the estimates of the angles that JFK was leaning forward from the horizontal as he travelled down Elm St. based in the Croft photo and his subsequent movements.  [Note: The FBI measured downward angles at z222 to be 20°23' and at z207 as 21°50' a difference of 1°27' over 15 frames. Extrapolating that another 15 frames back to z192 the downward horizontal angle would be 23°17', a difference of 2°54'.] See: CE884, 17H902.

If you'll scroll down to page 18, you see Oswald's view of the limo at "Z-124," half-a-second before Zapruder resumed filming at Z-133.

https://d7922adf-f499-4a26-96d4-8ab2d521fa35.usrfiles.com/ugd/d7922a_e280e26982b44f2c97c6e6e27026e385.pdf