The First Shot

[Charles Collins]

As I recall it was necessary to hold the right leg to do that to keep the right knee from its natural tendency to move right as one turns to the right.  I wanted the right knee to point more or less forward and not to the side as JBC had the door on the right to keep the knee from moving farther right. It may have been easier to hold a right shoulder turn by pressing the right leg against the door. 

But I don't see how all this affects the position of the left knee.  It tends to move left when the torso turns right and there is no question that at z190-200 JBC has his shoulders turned right.
The loss of the archived threads from years ago is unfortunate.

Some of us are not as flexible as others. For me personally, I would need to grab my leg and pull against it to even attempt to twist my torso as far to the right as the one in your photo. That pose also reminds me of a pose in a Hatha Yoga book that I used to do to stretch and try to stay more flexible.

[Andrew Mason]

Some of us are not as flexible as others. For me personally, I would need to grab my leg and pull against it to even attempt to twist my torso as far to the right as the one in your photo. That pose also reminds me of a pose in a Hatha Yoga book that I used to do to stretch and try to stay more flexible.

I put several books under my feet and put my feet close together.  I pulled my chair up to the right side of my desk so that my right knee is pressed against the inside right wall of my desk. I then turned my torso sharply to the right as we see JBC doing from z190-200 and held it there without holding my hand on any part of my body.  But I could not do that without having my left knee somewhat out to the left.  I certainly could not keep my left knee directly in front of me.  I will see if I can get someone to take a picture for me.

[Gerry Down]

That lamp (and another one just like it) was made by my mother and given to me many years before, when I left home. I believe that I hadn’t yet completely gotten that room’s furniture arrangement worked out or set up at the time the photo was made. Hence the lamp on the floor.   

Your mother could make lamps? What a crafty woman. The whole thing or just the shade?

[Charles Collins]

Your mother could make lamps? What a crafty woman. The whole thing or just the shade?

She was in some sort of ceramics group. As far as I know, they basically just painted and then baked on the finishes. She made a beer stein for me also. The lamp shade was purchased.

[Gerry Down]

She was in some sort of ceramics group. As far as I know, they basically just painted and then baked on the finishes. She made a beer stein for me also. The lamp shade was purchased.

That was the old folks for you. What could a young person do for you nowadays. Can't even change the oil in their car.

[Jerry Organ]

You have JFK as far right as possible. It is possible he was not that close to the right side of the car. So you have to allow for a possible range of positions that are consistent with his position in z193.

In z193 his right upper arm is extended to the right.  His forearm covers most of his upper arm, which means that his elbow is right of his shoulder and not much forward.  The shoulder appears to be inside the car, which is consistent with the elbow extending out to the right onto the top of the car.   That would put his midline at least 10 inches from the edge of the car. 

This is a model set I don't use anymore. Seems to have overdeveloped muscles. I did proportionally-scale the figures to a height of 6' 1". But the chest, as noted, was barrel-shaped and the shoulders were a bit too wide. Thanks for spotting that. I have a different more-average model set today.

I did return to the model and narrowed the shoulder width of JFK and JBC. The open gap between them in the film (where we see the seatback) is now closer in width to what is in Z193. This must be the problem. I didn't change anything else on the figure models. The only other change I did was reorient the car relative to the curvature of Elm at that point. About a 1 or 2 degree change.

My limousine is not accurate yet with regards to the hand-holds and tire hump. So I removed the handholds. I estimate Kennedy's midline to be 7 1/2" in from the interior wall of the limousine. The rear seat is 60" wide.



Nothing much changed with regard to the trajectory hitting Connally to the right of his mid-line.

A 15 degree path from the neck exit wound over the ensuing 24.5 inches goes 6.5 inches farther left, putting the bullet 16.5 inches from the right side of the car beside JFK. On the scale drawing of the limo CE872, the middle of the jump seat is located 15 inches from the inside of the right side panel.  This is consistent with the printed dimensions which show that the width of the back seat - the distance between the inside back seat panels - was 60 inches.  So, that would mean the bullet passed about 1.5 inches left of the middle of the jump seat.  With Connally turned as he was in z193, the bullet would have gone to the left of his spine even if his spine had been pressed against the seat back, which it wasn't.   With Gov. Connally's spine somewhat forward of the seat back and his shoulders turned right as we see in z193, I suggest that was enough to miss his turned back entirely. It may have grazed the back of his jacket as it was tumbling.

So I have JFK's midline at 7 1/2" from the interior side wall and the bullet arriving at Connally 13 1/2" from the same wall. About six inch difference. My jumpseats are 21" wide and about 8 1/2" apart. The center of a jumpseat is about 16" from the side wall interior.

I would have to move the Kennedy figure about six inches further away from the interior side wall to get the missile path to bypass Connally's torso.

[Andrew Mason]

This is a model set I don't use anymore. Seems to have overdeveloped muscles. I did proportionally-scale the figures to a height of 6' 1". But the chest, as noted, was barrel-shaped and the shoulders were a bit too wide. Thanks for spotting that. I have a different more-average model set today.

I did return to the model and narrowed the shoulder width of JFK and JBC. The open gap between them in the film (where we see the seatback) is now closer in width to what is in Z193. This must be the problem. I didn't change anything else on the figure models. The only other change I did was reorient the car relative to the curvature of Elm at that point. About a 1 or 2 degree change.

My limousine is not accurate yet with regards to the hand-holds and tire hump. So I removed the handholds. I estimate Kennedy's midline to be 7 1/2" in from the interior wall of the limousine. The rear seat is 60" wide.

This is not a criticism of your graphics, which you do really well, but the arm and chest position does not look natural and does not look like the photos.  This photo taken on Houston Street shows a more natural position that is not have his armpit was pressed against the side of the car as you are assuming:
   

Also:  you have to get the right distance between JFK's neck exit wound and JBC's spine. His spine was not pressed against the back of the jump seat.  The distance between the neck exit wound and JBC's spine was more like 36 inches, based on the Croft photo:
   

Nothing much changed with regard to the trajectory hitting Connally to the right of his mid-line.

The Powers film shows JFK and JBC from the rear and has JFK's shoulder inside the car:
   

Something must have changed in the relative position of the two men after that for the trajectory through JFK's neck to get close to JBC's right armpit.  [Note: the lighter area between JFK and Jackie appears to be the bouquet of yellow roses but the white spot just above that could be JBC's stetson - resting on his left knee?]

So I have JFK's midline at 7 1/2" from the interior side wall and the bullet arriving at Connally 13 1/2" from the same wall. About six inch difference. My jumpseats are 21" wide and about 8 1/2" apart. The center of a jumpseat is about 16" from the side wall interior.

I would have to move the Kennedy figure about six inches further away from the interior side wall to get the missile path to bypass Connally's torso.

You should estimate the range of error or uncertainty on the right/left position of JFK. The minimum is 7.5 inches and that has his right armpit right against the side (Canning measured the spine to armpit distance to be 20 cm = 7.9 inches on JBC).  As explained above, there is also some uncertainty in the distance from JFK's exit wound to JBC's spine.  It is at least 24 inches to the plane of the jump seat.

On the Hess & Eisenhardt scale drawing at 6 HSCA 50 the right jump seat is 2.5 inches from the side of the door which is about 1 inch further inside the car than the panel beside JFK. That makes 3.5 inches. But when I measure it, it appears to be 5 inches.  The seat itself is shown as 20.5 inches wide so by that the middle of the jump seat would be 15.25 inches farther inside the car than the interior side wall beside JFK.

If you then assume just 30 inches between JFK's exit wound and JBC's spine, the bullet moves 30 tan(15) = 8 inches farther left. That puts it 18 inches left of the side wall using my 10 inch side wall to JFK midline figure. That is 2.75 inches left of JBC's turned spine. It could be a bit more. But even using your 7.5 inches for JFK's midline from the right side, that puts the bullet passing to the left side of JBC's spine by 1/4 of an inch.

[Zeon Mason]

Why would either a lone gunman or a 2nd gunman take a shot after 313?

Would it not be quite apparent to the one (or both) observing the target in their scope or iron sights, that the head is nearly completely destroyed?

rusty barrel MC rifle with defective scope impossible to align unless shim used after rescrewiimg the mount to the stock, Suggests this rifle was planted before the shooting and never actually fired

What purpose to do this, as it seems rather pointless?

One possibility might be a shooter who was an CIA operative who was got left for dead at the Bay of Pigs.

This shooter was an enraged individual who vowed not just to terminate JFK but make him suffer pain just before finishing him off with a head shot

The shooter used a semi auto rifle with accurate scope and made his 1st shot approx 223 purposely aiming at the back of JFK in order to inflict a moment of severe pain

The shooter could have then immediately fired a 2nd and 3td shot in 2 secs, but instead, he waited a full 4.8 secs, carefully keeping his scope on the head of JFK as the shooter sadistically enjoyed those few seconds knowing the agony of pain that JFK must have been suffering at that point

The shooter then fired his final kill shot by rapid firing 2 shots in about 1.5 secs

The 2nd shot hit the skull at Z312-313

The 3rd shot right immediately followed but went slightly high due to muzzle rise , and flew just over the windshield to strike the curb near James Teague

All the bullets fired by the lone gunman using a semi auto rifle (7.62mm?). were comical shaped FMG type this necessitating the replacement with CE 399 and placing MC 6.5 mm fragments underneath Mrs Connallys seat in the limo.

The point of pre planting the MC rusty barrel rifle was to make a final statement of mockery , perhaps implicate Oswald as a traitor and or informant

This shooter would have had to use an elevator to descend from 6th floor to 1st floor, as he Would have been by Mrs Garner on the 4th floor if he had used the staircase.

This leaves Jack Dougherty as a prime suspect, either aiding the shooter or Jack being the shooter himself, UNLESS, JD was actually on the 7th floor sleeping when shots were fired and Jack stayed on the 7th floor for hiding for awhile (otherwise would’ve been seen by the 3 amigos huddling on the 5th floor, or by Mrs Garner, or by Truly/Baker when they arrived on the 7th floor.