The First Shot

[Charles Collins]

You are right again!  Thanks for pointing that out. It does make a big difference: the angle measures 9.5 degrees not 12.5:



  Depending on how accurate the blue line is in identifying the angle of the car path I suppose one could get another degree or so less so 8 or 8.5 degrees would be possible.  Sorry about causing confusion there - entirely my fault.

I tried the sine, inverse sine method on the lines that I drew on Don Roberdeau’s map. And calculated 8.1-degrees. Which is essentially what the protractor indicated. And a line connecting Zapruder’s position to the estimated Z223 point of the limousine and extended to the west retaining wall, hits the wall a foot or two south of the 45-degree corner. So if your estimated position of JFK is accurate, then perhaps the points indicated on Roberdeau’s map are supposed to be the center of the limo, just guessing.

[John Tonkovich]

I tried the sine, inverse sine method on the lines that I drew on Don Roberdeau’s map. And calculated 8.1-degrees. Which is essentially what the protractor indicated. And a line connecting Zapruder’s position to the estimated Z223 point of the limousine and extended to the west retaining wall, hits the wall a foot or two south of the 45-degree corner. So if your estimated position of JFK is accurate, then perhaps the points indicated on Roberdeau’s map are supposed to be the center of the limo, just guessing.

Roberdeau's map is amazingly inaccurate.

[Charles Collins]

Roberdeau's map is amazingly inaccurate.

Instead of just complaining about how wrong everything is, why don’t you actually do something about it? Here is Don Roberdeau’s words which invite anyone to do just that:

“Your comments, and your specific referenced critiques are always welcomed.

Any + all of your referenced information will be considered for inclusion for our DP

map when you email me via my contact information.”

Here is the web page where I found the above invitation (just for you):

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/8957-dealey-plaza-detailed-map-by-donald-roberdeau/

[John Tonkovich]

Instead of just complaining about how wrong everything is, why don’t you actually do something about it? Here is Don Roberdeau’s words which invite anyone to do just that:

“Your comments, and your specific referenced critiques are always welcomed.

Any + all of your referenced information will be considered for inclusion for our DP

map when you email me via my contact information.”

Here is the web page where I found the above invitation (just for you):

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/8957-dealey-plaza-detailed-map-by-donald-roberdeau/

Many times, I have directed users to Robert West.

[Charles Collins]

Many times, I have directed users to Robert West.

Q: Are there any reasons why this plat is an incomplete drawing?

A: This is what the FBI agent instructed me to show on this plat, these features.

Q: Mr. West, I direct your attention -- no, I will ask you something prior to that. Would you please step down from the witness stand and come over here?

A: Yes.

MR. SCIAMBRA: Your Honor, for the sake of convenience, provided I speak in a loud voice and provided Mr. West speaks in a loud voice, can I ask him questions from here?

THE COURT: Yes, but speak up.

BY MR. SCIAMBRA:
Q: I notice in the center lane of that which you have depicted as Elm Street there are numerals close to small dots. Can you please tell the Gentlemen of the Jury what those numbers represent and what the dots represent?

A: The number represents the frame number of the Zapruder film. The dot represents the location of President Kennedy in the limousine when the particular frame was shot.

MR. DYMOND: We object to that unless this gentlemen can testify to that of his own knowledge, Your Honor. Unless he measured where the President was each time it would be based purely on hearsay.

MR. SCIAMBRA: I am asking the question.

BY MR. SCIAMBRA:
Q: Why did you place the dot in the frame number in a particular location which is shown on this plat?

A: On the instructions of the FBI agent.

MR. DYMOND: We object to it and ask the Jury be instructed to disregard it.

THE COURT: I so instruct the Jury. Disregard the last remark.



So John, exactly why do you direct people to a map that the FBI had control of creating?

[John Tonkovich]

Q: Are there any reasons why this plat is an incomplete drawing?

A: This is what the FBI agent instructed me to show on this plat, these features.

Q: Mr. West, I direct your attention -- no, I will ask you something prior to that. Would you please step down from the witness stand and come over here?

A: Yes.

MR. SCIAMBRA: Your Honor, for the sake of convenience, provided I speak in a loud voice and provided Mr. West speaks in a loud voice, can I ask him questions from here?

THE COURT: Yes, but speak up.

BY MR. SCIAMBRA:
Q: I notice in the center lane of that which you have depicted as Elm Street there are numerals close to small dots. Can you please tell the Gentlemen of the Jury what those numbers represent and what the dots represent?

A: The number represents the frame number of the Zapruder film. The dot represents the location of President Kennedy in the limousine when the particular frame was shot.

MR. DYMOND: We object to that unless this gentlemen can testify to that of his own knowledge, Your Honor. Unless he measured where the President was each time it would be based purely on hearsay.

MR. SCIAMBRA: I am asking the question.

BY MR. SCIAMBRA:
Q: Why did you place the dot in the frame number in a particular location which is shown on this plat?

A: On the instructions of the FBI agent.

MR. DYMOND: We object to it and ask the Jury be instructed to disregard it.

THE COURT: I so instruct the Jury. Disregard the last remark.



So John, exactly why do you direct people to a map that the FBI had control of creating?

Because it's accurate.

[Dan O'meara]

Because it's accurate.

How do you know that?

[Jerry Organ]

I don't see how that can happen unless the bullet penetrated the rib from the outside in, not the inside out.  The bullet did not go through the lung but went around it yet was able to exit under the right nipple. 

More feasible with a shot that enters from behind at the Z220s rather than through the shoulder from the side at Z271.

I suspect that is quite consistent with being hit in the right armpit while turned around but you may want to have a thoracic surgeon opine on that.  I ran it by a retired pathologist friend of mine several years ago and he thought it was certainly possible but he also said bullets often do very odd things when passing through a body and it is difficult to reconstruct the fine details.

He could see you were showing him manipulated drawings with shoe-horns, so he entertained you and gave you a noncommittal answer to get rid of you.

As far as the wrist wound is concerned, that is much easier to do at z271 because his right wrist is pressed against the right side of his jacket.  This also solves the SBT problem of having the bullet deflect off the inside surface of the radius

I believe Dr. Gregory had a drawing showing the bullet might have gone through the wrist on the outer side of the radius. It is of a left hand because he was drawing with his right hand. It has been flipped below.



I don't know, but the Xray seems to show the "criss-cross" that could be an impact point is on the outer side of the radius.

but instead of deflecting away from the point of contact it deflects a huge angle left around the point of contact, through the palm side and across his body to the left thigh.  That is really difficult to reconcile with physics.  On the other hand, if the second shot deflected off the wrist and fragmented as the wrist is positioned in z271, the fragments would go up and forward.

Don't you still have to have a fragment exit the palm side at Z271?


Now, Mason, isn't there the bulk of a Stetson hat between Connally's right hand and his chest? Yet you have his right hand against his chest.