The First Shot

[John Tonkovich]

The first shot landed base first in the back - not neck - and did not penetrate very deeply.
Why would a bullet hit base first?
Would a bullet "tumble" if it hit a tree branch?
Points to ponder.

[Andrew Mason]

Did you really think people were going to be fooled by your fuzzy soft-focus screen grab? Come on. The figures on the side of the road are blobs.

And why did you want people to believe that it was easy to track through the foliage and that JFK came out in the clear at Z190? A search for the truth. Hmmm, nope. You want things to fit your Theory's requirement for a shot fired about Z200-ish.

Look at page 101 of the Warren Report.


You can't see hardly any features of the car in the approaching foliage.

I don't have any difficulty seeing the car and occupants passing under the tree.  All Oswald had to do was aim down the street and shoot when JFK came into view. My point is that JFK is clear well before z207.

Croft said no such thing. An FBI AirTel characterized the exposure that didn't turn out as "taken simultaneously with the shot which killed the President."

Croft was interviewed not long after:

    "Croft told the Powell Tribune for a story published Nov. 26, 1963,
     that he was 30 feet from JFK’s limousine when the shots rang out
     at around 12:30 p.m. Central Time."

That also doesn't say he was taking a photo that corresponded with a first shot.

Trask interviewed Croft and he said his photo (taken at z163) was taken before the first shot.  He also said he wound his camera and pressed the shutter at the time of the first shot.  I think we have gone over this before. Perhaps your memory is becoming as bad as your etiquette.   

Kennedy emerges from the foliage and into the clear about Z200.



No one could have tracked Kenndy through that foliage. You don't know know better than the FBI.

First of all, the FBI did their reenactment in May 1964 after the new spring foliage and branches had appeared.  The tree in November 1963 did not look like that, as we see in the Secret Service film from early December 1963.

I notice that you just say he appeared clear of the tree at z200 but you don't provide any analysis to support that. The film you have used does not show the full street.  JFK was opposite the Thornton Freeway sign at z200.  You can see that he is well clear of the tree by that time in the frame I showed in my earlier post with the yellow lines.

[Dan O'meara]

I don't have any difficulty seeing the car and occupants passing under the tree.  All Oswald had to do was aim down the street and shoot when JFK came into view. My point is that JFK is clear well before z207.

I thought it was your contention the first shot was between z190 - z200. [reply#258]

[Andrew Mason]

I thought it was your contention the first shot was between z190 - z200. [reply#258]

That is correct.  Well before z207, which is when the FBI determined the earliest time that JFK was clear of the tree from the 6th floor sniper's nest. He was clear almost a second earlier judging by the Secret Service film.

[Bill Chapman]

If a person sincerely believes what he proposes than he cannot be called a liar.
The target can be easily tracked through that foliage and fired upon when in the clear.
The twofer landed at the junction where the neck meets the back.
The rifling in the Carcano barrel grabs the bullet near the front, cutting down flight wobble and produces a very stable and accurate flight path.

[Dan O'meara]

That is correct.  Well before z207, which is when the FBI determined the earliest time that JFK was clear of the tree from the 6th floor sniper's nest. He was clear almost a second earlier judging by the Secret Service film.

Hmmm...
If JFK isn't clear of the foliage until z207 and the graphic Jerry posted above has JFK still in the foliage at z186 this surely means a shot at z190 would have been through the foliage.
Am I missing something?

[Andrew Mason]

I notice that Warren Commission Exhibit CE 907 is a film of the FBI re-enactment done on May 24, 1964. Does anyone know where I might view this film (other than going to NARA)? 

Also, I would like to know how the Secret Service film done in December 5, 1963 was documented.  The film does not appear to be an exhibit to either the WC or HSCA although stills from what appears to be a similar re-enactment done the same day but which is not in the film are found in CE875.

[Dan O'meara]

I notice that Warren Commission Exhibit CE 907 is a film of the FBI re-enactment done on May 24, 1964. Does anyone know where I might view this film (other than going to NARA)? 

Also, I would like to know how the Secret Service film done in December 5, 1963 was documented.  The film does not appear to be an exhibit to either the WC or HSCA although stills from what appears to be a similar re-enactment done the same day but which is not in the film are found in CE875.

It is almost certain that JFK is completely covered by the foliage a z190. There is no way a shot would be taken at this point. I feel this is going to be very difficult for anyone proposing a shot at z190 to get away from.