Ted Callaway & The 1:15 Shooting

[Martin Weidmann]

Single witness = Earlene Roberts estimated in/out times. You're the one claiming an earlier Tippit snuff time. The Perry/Mack Oak Cliff proof-of-concept time trial has Oswald arriving in time for the 1:15 later confrontation.

Multiple witnesses = No claim from me that they all saw him shoot the officer. They ID'd him as being either at or near the scene. And any one of them not being able to ID him from a photo depends on the angle and distance they saw him from as opposed to the photo they viewed.

And the well-known '10 witnesses/10 versions' is self-explanatory as seen in the @/near Tippit death scene.

Single witness = Earlene Roberts estimated in/out times.

Really? So, when she said that when Oswald walked in she was trying to get the television to work to watch the one o'clock news that was about to come on, it really wasn't one o'clock.... Is that what you are saying?

And the Warren Commission's timeline for Oswald to get from the TSBD to the roominghouse really didn't get him there at 1 o'clock? Is that what you are saying?

It is not a matter of me relying on one witness. It is you ignoring the collective timeline established by several witnesses who corroborate eachother. You are the one who is now depending on Earlene Roberts being wrong!

The Perry/Mack Oak Cliff proof-of-concept time trial has Oswald arriving in time for the 1:15 later confrontation.

Yes it did. It was an obvious attempt to try to get Oswald there before 1.14 and they barely made it. They had "Oswald" walking two different routes which they timed and later added them up. The fastest time for the shortest route was 11 minutes, which means that Oswald would to have left the roominghouse at 1.04 pm at the latest.

Btw, notice that Gary Mack also accepted Earlene Roberts' time estimate as being correct. The problem with this "time trial" is that they didn't take in account that "Oswald" didn't get there and killed Tippit instantly. First he was seen walking in two different directions, then Tippit stopped him and the two men talked briefly through the window of the car. Even if all that only took one or two minutes, it already screws up Mack's time line as it requires the departure time at the roominghouse to be pushed back by at least two minutes or so!

The only good thing to come out of this "time trail" is that it demonstrated clearly and beyond doubt that Oswald would have needed at least 11 minutes to walk the distance between the roominghouse to 10th/Patton. Which, in turn proves that Oswald couldn't have killed Tippit if he was shot between 1.06 and 1.10 as a preponderance of evidence shows.

So, let's examine your "reality" for a moment. You claim Oswald could have gotten to 10th/Patton by 1.15 to kill Tippit at that time. Well, Helen Markham took the same bus to work on a daily basis. She estimated the departure time of her regular bus at 1.15. That could be the slightly delayed 1.12 bus or the 1.22. Either way, as far as Markham was concerned she needed to be at the bus stop on Jefferson no later than 1.15.

She testified she left her house at 9th street just after 1 pm. She only needed to walk two blocks to get to Jefferson, which would have taken her no more than 5 minutes. She would have walked one block in 2,5 maybe 3 minutes. This would have gotten her to the crossing of 10th/Patton at around 1.06 or 1.07, which fits perfectly with Tippit being shot at that time. If Tippit was shot at 1.14 or 1.15, as you claim, Markham would have been at the bus stop at Jefferson and could not have witnessed Tippit being killed!
 
How do we know that Markham's estimated time of 1.06 is probably correct? Simple; T.F. Bowley arrived on the scene, just after Tippit was killed. In his affidavit he said he picked up his daughter at R.L. Thornton School in Singing Hills at "about 12:55". School bells, in my experience, have a tendency to ring at the correct time every day! Next, Bowley was going to pick up his wife from work, to go on a family holiday, so he had every reason to be aware of the time! The drive from the school to 10th/Patton is about 7 miles long and takes roughly 13 minutes, depending on the route, making it absolutely possible and highly plausible for him to arrive at 10th street at 1.10 pm, just like he said he did in his affidavit. But even if we are kind to the LNs and accept that Bowley didn't pick up his daughter on time (leaving her waiting for 5 minutes or longer) and did not leave the school until 1 PM, he still would have arrived at 10th/Patton at 1:13, which of course would have been prior to the shooting of Tippit at 1:15, as the WC narrative claims.

Bowley corroborates Markham's timeline. So, how do we know Bowley's arrival time of 1.10 pm is likely correct? Ted Callaway provides us with the answer. In his testimony he said, he heard the shots, saw Oswald run towards him, he then ran half a block to the corner of 10th/Patton and saw Tippit lying in the street. In other words, Callaway must have been on the scene within 2 or 3 minutes after the shooting, right? Callaway also testified that by the time he got there, a couple of cars had already stopped. He then saw the ambulance arrive (the distance from the funeral home where the ambulance came from to the crime scene was a bit more than one block) and he helped load Tippit in the ambulance and guess who helped him? T.F. Bowley said in his affidavit that he called the DPD dispatcher on the radio and then helped to place Tippit on a stretcher and into the ambulance. He then saw somebody (Callaway) take Tippit's revolver out of the police car. What does all this mean? It means that Bowley was already on the scene when Callaway, who only had to run half a block, arrived there!

So, for Tippit to be shot at 1.14 or 1.15, Markham would have had to be late by at least 5 minutes (if she was still at 10th/Patton at 1.15) to get to her bus stop, or, alternatively, it must have taken her 10 minutes to walk one block. Bowley's watch must have been wrong by at least 5 minutes (meaning he picked up his daughter too late from school and did not notice it) and, as a consequence, Callaway must have taken at least 8 (3 + 5) minutes or so to run half a block to arrive after Bowley was already there. As if that isn't enough, there is also the matter of the ambulance. DPD officers Davenport and Bardin wrote in their Supplementary Offense Report that they saw the ambulance en route to Methodist Hospital and followed it. They assisted in getting Tippit to the emergency room, where he was declared DOA at 1.15 pm, which is, of course, exactly the time of DOA stated in the authorization for autopsy, issued by Justice of the Peace Joe Brown.

Multiple witnesses = No claim from me that they all saw him shoot the officer. They ID'd him as being either at or near the scene. And any one of them not being able to ID him from a photo depends on the angle and distance they saw him from as opposed to the photo they viewed.

Actually, you did claim;

You lot rely too much on single-witness reports. Oswald was ID'd as the gunman @Tippit by multiple witnesses.

Beyond that, it is not relevant what the witnesses (believe they) saw, when it is physically impossible for Oswald to have been at 10th/Patton when Tippit was killed, which is between 1.06 and 1,10 pm as the most compelling evidence shows.

And btw, Scoggings saw the killer running directly toward him. He should have been able to identify Oswald in a photograph but didn't. Perhaps you think the FBI showed him a photo of Oswald's back of his head?

[Bill Chapman]

Single witness = Earlene Roberts estimated in/out times.

Really? So, when she said that when Oswald walked in she was trying to get the television to work to watch the one o'clock news that was about to come on, it really wasn't one o'clock.... Is that what you are saying?

And the Warren Commission's timeline for Oswald to get from the TSBD to the roominghouse really didn't get him there at 1 o'clock? Is that what you are saying?

It is not a matter of me relying on one witness. It is you ignoring the collective timeline established by several witnesses who corroborate eachother. You are the one who is now depending on Earlene Roberts being wrong!

The Perry/Mack Oak Cliff proof-of-concept time trial has Oswald arriving in time for the 1:15 later confrontation.

Yes it did. It was an obvious attempt to try to get Oswald there before 1.14 and they barely made it. They had "Oswald" walking two different routes which they timed and later added them up. The fastest time for the shortest route was 11 minutes, which means that Oswald would to have left the roominghouse at 1.04 pm at the latest.

Btw, notice that Gary Mack also accepted Earlene Roberts' time estimate as being correct. The problem with this "time trial" is that they didn't take in account that "Oswald" didn't get there and killed Tippit instantly. First he was seen walking in two different directions, then Tippit stopped him and the two men talked briefly through the window of the car. Even if all that only took one or two minutes, it already screws up Mack's time line as it requires the departure time at the roominghouse to be pushed back by at least two minutes or so!

The only good thing to come out of this "time trail" is that it demonstrated clearly and beyond doubt that Oswald would have needed at least 11 minutes to walk the distance between the roominghouse to 10th/Patton. Which, in turn proves that Oswald couldn't have killed Tippit if he was shot between 1.06 and 1.10 as a preponderance of evidence shows.

So, let's examine your "reality" for a moment. You claim Oswald could have gotten to 10th/Patton by 1.15 to kill Tippit at that time. Well, Helen Markham took the same bus to work on a daily basis. She estimated the departure time of her regular bus at 1.15. That could be the slightly delayed 1.12 bus or the 1.22. Either way, as far as Markham was concerned she needed to be at the bus stop on Jefferson no later than 1.15.

She testified she left her house at 9th street just after 1 pm. She only needed to walk two blocks to get to Jefferson, which would have taken her no more than 5 minutes. She would have walked one block in 2,5 maybe 3 minutes. This would have gotten her to the crossing of 10th/Patton at around 1.06 or 1.07, which fits perfectly with Tippit being shot at that time. If Tippit was shot at 1.14 or 1.15, as you claim, Markham would have been at the bus stop at Jefferson and could not have witnessed Tippit being killed!
 
How do we know that Markham's estimated time of 1.06 is probably correct? Simple; T.F. Bowley arrived on the scene, just after Tippit was killed. In his affidavit he said he picked up his daughter at R.L. Thornton School in Singing Hills at "about 12:55". School bells, in my experience, have a tendency to ring at the correct time every day! Next, Bowley was going to pick up his wife from work, to go on a family holiday, so he had every reason to be aware of the time! The drive from the school to 10th/Patton is about 7 miles long and takes roughly 13 minutes, depending on the route, making it absolutely possible and highly plausible for him to arrive at 10th street at 1.10 pm, just like he said he did in his affidavit. But even if we are kind to the LNs and accept that Bowley didn't pick up his daughter on time (leaving her waiting for 5 minutes or longer) and did not leave the school until 1 PM, he still would have arrived at 10th/Patton at 1:13, which of course would have been prior to the shooting of Tippit at 1:15, as the WC narrative claims.

Bowley corroborates Markham's timeline. So, how do we know Bowley's arrival time of 1.10 pm is likely correct? Ted Callaway provides us with the answer. In his testimony he said, he heard the shots, saw Oswald run towards him, he then ran half a block to the corner of 10th/Patton and saw Tippit lying in the street. In other words, Callaway must have been on the scene within 2 or 3 minutes after the shooting, right? Callaway also testified that by the time he got there, a couple of cars had already stopped. He then saw the ambulance arrive (the distance from the funeral home where the ambulance came from to the crime scene was a bit more than one block) and he helped load Tippit in the ambulance and guess who helped him? T.F. Bowley said in his affidavit that he called the DPD dispatcher on the radio and then helped to place Tippit on a stretcher and into the ambulance. He then saw somebody (Callaway) take Tippit's revolver out of the police car. What does all this mean? It means that Bowley was already on the scene when Callaway, who only had to run half a block, arrived there!

So, for Tippit to be shot at 1.14 or 1.15, Markham would have had to be late by at least 5 minutes to get to her bus stop, Bowley's watch must have been wrong by at least 5 minutes (meaning he picked up his daughter too late from school and did not notice it) and, as a consequence, Callaway must have taken at least 8 (3 + 5) minutes or so to run half a block to arrive after Bowley was already there. As if that isn't enough, there is also the matter of the ambulance. DPD officers Davenport and Bardin wrote in their Supplementary Offense Report that they saw the ambulance en route to Methodist Hospital and followed it. They assisted in getting Tippit to the emergency room, where he was declared DOA at 1.15 pm, which is, of course, exactly the time of DOA stated in the authorization for autopsy, issued by Justice of the Peace Joe Brown.

Multiple witnesses = No claim from me that they all saw him shoot the officer. They ID'd him as being either at or near the scene. And any one of them not being able to ID him from a photo depends on the angle and distance they saw him from as opposed to the photo they viewed.

Actually, you did claim;

Beyond that, it is not relevant what the witnesses (believe they) saw, when it is physically impossible for Oswald to have been at 10th/Patton when Tippit was killed, which is between 1.06 and 1,10 pm as the most compelling evidence shows.

And btw, Scoggings saw the killer running directly toward him. He should have been able to identify Oswald in a photograph but didn't. Perhaps you think the FBI showed him a photo of Oswald's back of his head?

Markham: 'Number two'

[Martin Weidmann]

Markham: 'Number two'

Just as expected. Classic LN behavior. Billy only wants to deal with facts that favor his fairytale story.

But when they don't and things get too complicated for Billy, leaving him unable to muster a serious or credible response, he just throws out a silly one-liner comment, sticks his head in the sand and hopes nobody notices his inability to have a serious discussion about factual critical evidence.

It demonstrates perfectly that I was right when I said earlier that Bill Chapman never says anything of significance or relevance.

Billy, of course, does not understand, nor will he ever accept, that this childish response is akin to waiving the white flag of surrender.

[Bill Chapman]

Just as expected. Classic LN behavior. Billy only wants to deal with facts that favor his fairytale story.

But when they don't and things get too complicated for Billy, leaving him unable to muster a serious or credible response, he just throws out a silly one-liner comment, sticks his head in the sand and hopes nobody notices his inability to have a serious discussion about factual critical evidence.

It demonstrates perfectly that I was right when I said earlier that Bill Chapman never says anything of significance or relevance.

Billy, of course, does not understand, nor will he ever accept, that this childish response is akin to waiving the white flag of surrender.

CTers resort to word salads when faced with the simple truth.

PS: #2

[Martin Weidmann]

CTers resort to word salads when faced with the simple truth.

PS: #2

Oh poor boy...  is this really how pathetic you actually are?

Having trouble reading anything more than 2 lines? Or is anything that presents you with facts you can not dispute "word salad" to you?

But I get it... when a fairytale provides you with the comfort you desperately need, it's easy to simply dismiss the facts to keep your so-called "truth" alive?

In any event, you are behaving like a 6 year old, so get back to me once you grow up and are able to have a normal discussion.

[Bill Chapman]

Oh poor boy...  is this really how pathetic you actually are?

Having trouble reading anything more than 2 lines? Or is anything that presents you with facts you can not dispute "word salad" to you?

But I get it... when a fairytale provides you with the comfort you desperately need, it's easy to simply dismiss the facts to keep your so-called "truth" alive?

In any event, you are behaving like a 6 year old, so get back to me once you grow up and are able to have a normal discussion.

The Divine Ms M: 'Number two'

[Martin Weidmann]

The Divine Ms M: 'Number two'

Adolesence must really be a bitch.....

Remember when you said this about me;

Use your self-described 'superior education', come down to earth for once, and search 'why do people ask a question they already know the answer to'.

and

My sample clearly proves what LNers have known all along: You're two-faced. And shallow. But hey, thanks so much for whatever hope you think you are capable of bestowing on others. I really appreciate it. No, really..

You must really be frustrated.... Wouldn't you just love to show me up in front of everybody? Yeah, sure you would.... So, why don't you just do it. Tell us all what's wrong with the combined timeline of Markham, Bowley, Callaway and Davenport and show me where I went wrong.... Go on then... have at it. You can do it, can't you?