Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2

[Rick Plant]

These experts have been all over the board about the virus from the beginning which brings to mind the saying about the most feared words in the English language.

"I am from the US government and I am here to help you"

There are endless stories of people in everyone's community having huge problems with the vaccination. There seems to be a huge allergic reaction to it with the least being sick for a few days.

 A female of child bearing age would be a fool to get the shot. Maybe you have forgotten the "Morning Sickness Pill" of the 60's that affected the ability of the next generation to have children and the problems with the children after the birth. There is no way these companies have any idea of the real net effect of the shot. The shot should just be a personal choice knowing the risks. If someone feels safe, based from having been vaccinated, then there should not be any concern about having contact with someone who is not vaccinated. By the time the vaccine was available wasn't half the country already exposed to the virus?

Why is it there seems to be no credit given for someone who has had the Covid. That in itself seems very strange in this great push to give everyone a shot.

You must be connoisseur of right wing media. You're helping to spread vaccine disinformation with bogus right wing anti vaccine propaganda.   

The experts have not been "all over the board". They made it very clear from day one that people need to wear masks, social distance, wash your hands, and avoid large groups of people (especially indoors) until we had a vaccine. It was the criminal Trump Administration, GOP politicians, and the lying right wing media that's been "all over the board" spreading lies and purposeful disinformation since day one.       

Actually, it's very easy to get vaccinated. President Biden made it easy for ALL Americans to get vaccinated. All you have to do is walk inside your local pharmacy and you will get a shot. Most counties had vaccination sites open daily for people to get a shot. But a lot of them aren't in operation now since right wingers refuse to get vaccinated.

The CDC has always clearly indicated that some people will have mild side effects from the shot. Would you rather have the full and deadly side effects of COVID-19 dying in the ICU on a ventilator instead?

Millions of women have already been vaccinated that are of child bearing age and they barely had any side effects. Would you rather have millions of women of child bearing age die from COVID 19? Because unvaccinated women of child bearing age are dying from COVID-19 this very minute.     

People come into contact with strangers everyday and there is no way of knowing who is vaccinated or not which is why we have more new cases spreading in unvaccinated areas.

A vaccinated person can still get the virus but the side effects will be very mild. So, the vaccinated person can give the virus to the unmasked unvaccinated person that might end up killing them.

Just because a person already had COVID doesn't make them immune to getting it again. They need to get vaccinated so they don't end up getting the virus again and dying from it.

Until everyone gets vaccinated we will never be able to get COVID 19 under control. These unvaccinated morons will continue to spread COVID and we will keep having more outbreaks which will allow the virus to mutate into a more deadly variant. We already have that now with the Delta variant and scientists are worried that the Delta variant will mutate into an even more deadly variant where the vaccine won't have any effect on it.         

Most people that got COVID got it because they were careless and they don't deserve credit for that. They will get it again being unvaccinated and they may not survive it this time. Have you had COVID?     

Do some research on the vaccine since you are so misinformed and lay off the right wing media, they spread nothing but lies and are killing their own viewers. 

[Jack Nessan]

Some states choose to stop reporting COVID-19 "recoveries" because there was no uniform definition. But there are enough data sources to estimate the national recovery numbers.

The growing problem seems to be with "Long COVID" sufferers ( Link ), those "recovered" but who have symptoms like fatigue, loss of smell, etc.

    "In January 2021, a study in the UK reported that 30% of recovered
     patients were readmitted to hospital within 140 days, and 12% of
     the total died. Many patients had developed diabetes for the first
     time, as well as problems with heart, liver and kidney problems."

The new variants are stronger and affect the young more so than the original COVID-19.

"New Long-Haul COVID Clinics Treat Mysterious and Ongoing Symptoms", Scientific American, Jun30-2021 ( Link )

One seems to avoid the risk of "long-haul" COVID-19 symptoms by simply getting the vaccine:

    "While long COVID is observed after COVID-19 infection, it has not
     been reported after COVID-19 vaccination, with over 100,000 partici-
     pants included in vaccine trials as of December 2020." (Wikipedia)

But even those with full vaccination and the "fully-recovered" (if there is such a thing) can contact or harbor the disease and unwittingly spread it to the unvaccinated. That's why--if your area is experiencing a "hot spot" or increase in infections--it's a good idea to mask in public and unmask in a small "bubble". Patriotic even!

I could care less what the news media thinks, left or right. This disease has been around long enough for all of us to have personal knowledge of how it works and how it effects others. We all know people who have had terrible reactions to it and stories from medical friends about the vaccinations and the reoccurance of the disease.

I have had covid and my pregnant daughter and wife both had their sense of smell and taste impaired and their senses are still impaired. I know of people who basiclly isolated themselves only to have one contract the disease and the other did not. There are many stories of Families where some get the disease while others in the same household do not. The experts are learning as they go just like the rest of us. Masks are a great example of how the experts are all over the board. Another would be ventilators, originally the shut down was to be for 6 weeks to let them build ventiltors. Now to be put on a ventilator is considered a death sentence.

Most of us figured out a long time ago there had to be different variants around because of how severe some peoples reactions were compared to others. Most of us figured out like the flu there is no end to it. The vaccination has gone from being a six months immunity to it is good for ever but maybe it will take booster shots. Oh and it might be good for the Delta variant or maybe it will not. Nobody knows about all the other variants.

Now the same question. How can the vaccination be better than having actually had the disease and your body actually having fought off the disease? Over half the population was estimated to have been exposed. I would think having had the disease would be better than the vaccine.

[Rick Plant]

White House to Fox: Why isn't your 'biggest concern' the number of people dying from vaccine misinformation?

Fox News' Peter Doocy pelted White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki with extremist conspiracy theory questions on Friday related to a study released this week finding just 12 people on Facebook are responsible for 65% of all coronavirus and COVID-19 vaccine misinformation.

His questions were so contrived and baseless Psaki at one point was forced to ask why the Fox News correspondent's "biggest concern" wasn't the increased numbers of Americans dying from coronavirus disinformation, which also happens to be the very disinformation he and his network are spreading.

"Okay so these 12 people who you have on a list, 12 individuals. Do they know that somebody at the Surgeon General's Office is going through their profile?" Doocy asked.

The information the White House shared came from this study by a group that is not a part of the federal government, and was published in countless news reports.

"Our biggest concern here, and I, frankly, think it should be your biggest concern, is [the misinformation] leading them to not take a vaccine. Young people, old people, kids, children – this is all being, a lot of them are being impacted by misinformation," Psaki said.

Doocy refused to address that, but went on the claim that the "big concern though, I think for a lot of people on Facebook is that now this is big brother watching you."

Minutes earlier he had falsely claimed that the Biden administration was "spying" on Americans' Facebook profiles.

Psaki did not respond to that falsehood – again, the information comes from a study of Facebook pages that are public on the social media platform, but slammed Doocy for prioritizing a conspiracy theory over Americans dying.

"They're more concerned about that than people dying across the country because of a pandemic where misinformation is traveling on social media platforms? That feels unlikely to me," she said. "If you have the data to back that up I'm happy to discuss it."

Doocy also fired up the old attack on Dr. Anthony Fauci, who said at the start of the pandemic that masks were not necessary – which at that point was based on the general scientific belief guided by the number of cases and what was known at the time, coupled with the dire lack of PPE for medical first responders.

"There are videos of Dr. Fauci from 2020 before anybody had a vaccine and he is out there saying there's no reason to be walking around with a mask and so is the administration going to contact Facebook and ask them to take that down?" Doocy asked.

Psaki refused to entertain that old conspiracy theory other than to remind Doocy that "science evolves" and "information evolves," but then slammed those who are spreading a false claim about the vaccine.

"I have never seen any data such as suggest that, that the vaccines cause infertility, that is information that is irresponsible," she said.

https://www.rawstory.com/vaccine-misinformation-2653818815/

[Rick Plant]

I could care less what the news media thinks, left or right. This disease has been around long enough for all of us to have personal knowledge of how it works and how it effects others. We all know people who have had terrible reactions to it and stories from medical friends about the vaccinations and the reoccurance of the disease.

Obviously, you have no clue about the disease because you're parroting the same  disinformation that comes from the right wing media. A slight fever is not a "terrible reaction" and it's a lot better than a 104 temperature dying from Covid in the ICU being hooked up to a ventilator.     

I have had covid and my pregnant daughter and wife both had their sense of smell and taste impaired and their senses are still impaired. I know of people who basiclly isolated themselves only to have one contract the disease and the other did not. There are many stories of Families where some get the disease while others in the same household do not. The experts are learning as they go just like the rest of us. Masks are a great example of how the experts are all over the board. Another would be ventilators, originally the shut down was to be for 6 weeks to let them build ventiltors. Now to be put on a ventilator is considered a death sentence.

And being unvaccinated will allow you to get sick all over again with even worse symptoms. The whole point of the vaccine is not to be put in that situation again to where you can die from it.     

Most of us figured out a long time ago there had to be different variants around because of how severe some peoples reactions were compared to others. Most of us figured out like the flu there is no end to it. The vaccination has gone from being a six months immunity to it is good for ever but maybe it will take booster shots. Oh and it might be good for the Delta variant or maybe it will not. Nobody knows about all the other variants.

 

There were no "other variants" around before. The reason the Delta variant started is because it mutated from the serious COVID crisis in India and it eventually spread to America. The reason we will need booster shots is because of these anti vaxx idiots who refuse to get vaccinated and the Delta variant will mutate into another more deadly variant so a new booster shot will be needed to combat that strain. If everybody got vaccinated we will reach herd immunity which is why health experts, doctors, and Democrats are trying so hard to get people vaccinated. But with all the vaccine disinformation, especially the nonsense you're parroting it will be more difficult to obtain.           

Now the same question. How can the vaccination be better than having actually had the disease and your body actually having fought off the disease? Over half the population was estimated to have been exposed. I would think having had the disease would be better than the vaccine.

I already answered your ridiculous question and I can't believe you are even asking something like this.

The vaccine prevents you from dying from COVID-19 and the more deadly Delta variant. If you happen to get COVID and you are vaccinated the symptoms will be extremely mild and you won't die.

Already having COVID does nothing to protect you from not getting it again. That's why you need to get vaccinated so you won't die from the more deadly Delta variant. People who already had COVID are getting it again and dying from the Delta variant.

Lay off the right wing vaccine disinformation.     

[Rick Plant]

People unvaccinated against Covid-19 risk the most serious virus of their lives, expert says

With vaccination rates still not at the threshold needed to stop the spread of Covid-19, most Americans who are unprotected will likely contract the rapidly spreading Delta variant, one expert said.

"And for most people who get this Delta variant, it's going to be the most serious virus that they get in their lifetime in terms of the risk of putting them in the hospital," Dr. Scott Gottlieb, commissioner of the US Food and Drug Administration during the Trump administration, told CBS' "Face the Nation" Sunday.

Delta is the most transmissible Covid-19 variant yet, US Surgeon General Dr. Vivek Murthy told CNN. And experts say it is exacerbating the rise in cases among unvaccinated Americans.

In Los Angeles County, the rate of new Covid-19 cases has increased 300% since July 4, the county health department said. Covid-19 hospitalizations have more than doubled from the previous month.

And 48 states are now seeing new case numbers surge at least 10% higher than the previous week, according to data from Johns Hopkins University.

That is concerning, Murthy said, because often a rise in cases and hospitalizations is followed by a rise in Covid-19 deaths. Experts are particularly worried about the unvaccinated populations, as 99.5% of the deaths from Covid-19 occur among people who have not been vaccinated, Murthy said.

The only way to stem the rise in cases is vaccination, Murthy told CNN's Dana Bash Sunday.

The fight to increase vaccinations is transitioning to the hands of local leaders, Murthy said. Springfield, Missouri, Mayor Ken McClure told "Face the Nation" he hopes community leaders will convince people to get vaccinated before it is too late.

"So it gets down to the community leaders, the community institutions that people trust saying you have to get vaccination. That's the only way that we are going to emerge from this," McClure said.


Delta variant sends younger people to the hospital

The Delta variant might spread faster than other strains of coronavirus because it makes more copies of itself inside our bodies at a faster pace, researchers found.

In research posted online, scientists examining 62 cases of the Delta variant found viral loads about 1,260 times higher than those found in 63 cases from the early epidemic wave in 2020.The Delta variant is also sending younger and previously healthy people to hospitals -- the vast majority of which have not been vaccinated, say doctors in several states suffering surges.

"This year's virus is not last year's virus," said Dr. Catherine O'Neal, an infectious disease specialist at Our Lady of the Lake Regional Medical Center in Baton Rouge, Louisiana.

It's attacking our 40-year-olds. It's attacking our parents and young grandparents. And it's getting our kids," O'Neal said. She said her Covid-19 unit now has more patients in their 20s than previously during the pandemic.

In the face of rampant misinformation about the virus and the vaccine, McClure urged people to use trusted sources and to "make sure people have good information."

Misinformation "takes away our freedom," Murthy said, adding that the inaccurate information inhibits people's power to make educated decisions about the health of themselves and their families.

And with the virus' disproportionately higher impact among people who aren't vaccinated, the consequences can be severe.

"All this misinformation that's floating around is having a real cost that can be measured in lives lost, and that is tragic," Murthy said.


11 people show up to three-hour vaccination event

In Alabama, which has one of the lowest vaccination rates in the US, a three-and-a-half-hour vaccination clinic at a church outside of Birmingham Sunday yielded little progress as only 11 people showed up.

MedsPlus, the health care provider on site, has been holding clinics at churches, business and community centers, in hopes of partnering with local leaders that people trust. But according to Alabama Public Health Department's dashboard, the number of vaccines administered in the state has dropped off in a steep decline since the peak in March and April.

According to data from the CDC, just 33.7% of Alabama's residents were fully vaccinated as of Sunday.

Since April 1, 529 people have died in Alabama from Covid-19. According to the Alabama Public Health department, about 96% of them were unvaccinated.

Shuntasia Williams, 15, said she got her first dose of vaccine at the event because she wants to be protected when school starts next month. She told CNN she's proud of her friend group for being vaccinated, but she has also seen rumors online that her peers are falling for.

"I seen somebody that said their arm got so swollen, it had to get amputated off," Williams said. "That is the most crazy thing. One thing about vaccines is they start spreading rumors about it, but you have to get out and see it for yourself."

Williams said these are not first-hand accounts by people, but rather misleading posts and articles that continue to be shared.

"Take it from me. I'm 15 years old. Go get the vaccine. It's not shocking. My arm is not swollen. I'm not getting my arm amputated. I'm actually feeling great," she said

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/19/health/us-coronavirus-monday/index.html

[Rick Plant]

The Delta variant is so contagious, those unprotected will likely get it

Millions of Americans are jeopardizing their health, freedom and finances by not getting vaccinated and putting themselves at risk of the most infectious coronavirus strain yet, current and former federal health officials say.

"Most people will either get vaccinated, or have been previously infected, or they will get this Delta variant," Dr. Scott Gottlieb told CBS' "Face the Nation" on Sunday.

"And for most people who get this Delta variant, it's going to be the most serious virus that they get in their lifetime in terms of the risk of putting them in the hospital," said Gottlieb, who was commissioner of the US Food and Drug Administration during the Trump administration.

For those not fully vaccinated, "quality of mask is going to make a difference with a variant that spreads more aggressively, like Delta does, where people are more contagious and exude more virus," he said.

In research posted online, scientists examining 62 cases of the Delta variant found viral loads about 1,260 times higher than those found from 63 cases from the early epidemic wave in 2020.

The Delta variant is also sending younger and previously healthy people to hospitals -- the vast majority of which have not been vaccinated, say doctors in several states suffering surges.

"This year's virus is not last year's virus," said Dr. Catherine O'Neal, an infectious disease specialist at Our Lady of the Lake Regional Medical Center in Baton Rouge, Louisiana.

"It's attacking our 40-year-olds. It's attacking our parents and young grandparents. And it's getting our kids," O'Neal said. She said her Covid-19 unit now has more patients in their 20s who were previously healthy."You have to get vaccinated,"

O'Neal said. "That's the only way to end it. Masks and mitigation, they're not going to take it. It's going to be vaccination."

Since February, 97% of cases and deaths related to Covid-19 in Louisiana were among people not fully vaccinated, Gov. John Bel Edwards said Friday.

Like with any vaccine, a small percentage of vaccinated people may get a breakthrough infection. But it's literally impossible to get Covid-19 from any of the vaccines used in the US because none of them have any coronavirus in them.

"Even if you do have a breakthrough infection -- which, again, happens in a very small minority of people -- it's likely to be a mild or asymptomatic infection," US Surgeon General Dr. Vivek Murthy told CNN on Sunday.

But most Americans are not fully vaccinated. As of Sunday, only 48.6% of Americans were fully vaccinated, according to data from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Many Americans have not been vaccinated due to misinformation, which "takes away our freedom and our power to make (educated) decisions for us and our families," the surgeon general said.

Now, infections of the Delta variant have spread to all 50 states.

In Los Angeles County, the rate of new Covid-19 cases has increased 300% since July 4, the county health department said. Covid-19 hospitalizations have more than doubled from the previous month.

The surge in new Covid-19 cases and hospitalizations prompted county officials to reinstate an indoor mask mandate.


She was in the best shape of her life,' then died from Covid-19

Rachel Maginn Rosser recently lost her 63-year-old mother to Covid-19. Rosser, a nurse, said she believes her mom would still be alive had she been vaccinated.

"She was in the best shape of her life. She was working out five times a week with a personal trainer," Rossner said Saturday. "She loved to go out and have fun. She was a social butterfly. And she got sick, and it was just a slow decline from there."

Kim Maginn had a sore throat and fever for about a week, said her daughter Rosser, who lives in Arkansas. Maginn was "shocked" when she went to the doctor last month and found out it wasn't strep, but Covid-19.

Arkansas has one of the lowest vaccinations rates in the country, according to the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

And with Covid-19 patients filling up hospital beds, Rosser said she felt "helpless" because she wasn't able to visit her mother when she was in an intensive care unit.

"I had to stay outside of her room and call her on her cell phone to talk to her," she said. "She looked really small in the bed. It was hard for her to talk because she was struggling to breathe."

Rosser said her mother didn't get vaccinated because she believed that since she hadn't already been infected, she wasn't going to get sick.

She said she pleaded for her mom to get vaccinated.

"I tried several different tactics. I laid all the facts out for her. I tried to plead to her emotional side of 'What would we do without you? Could you imagine our life without you?'" Rosser said.

"Part of me wishes I had tried harder. But she was really stubborn. She was stubborn, but she wasn't stupid. I think eventually I would have been able to convince her, but she got sick and she got Covid. And so there wasn't any more time to try and convince her."

Rosser said she hopes sharing her family's story will help encourage others who are vaccine hesitant to get vaccinated.

"This virus ... doesn't discriminate. It doesn't care if you're old or you're young, or you're healthy or you're not. Once you get it, it can be devastating to your family," Rosser said.

She encouraged people to "keep talking to their loved ones and keep trying to convince them because I wouldn't want anybody else to have to go through this."


Coronavirus has spread among children at camps

While the chances of children dying from Covid-19 are low, more children and teens are getting hospitalized with Covid-19 or suffering long-term complications.

There have been numerous instances of Covid-19 outbreaks at summer camps.

In Utah, officials are investigating Covid-19 cases at more than a dozen summer camps for children, said Aislynn Tolman-Hill, a spokesperson for Utah County's health department.

"We are hearing and know that there are MANY instances where symptomatic campers are sent home but not getting tested," Tolman-Hill told CNN in an email.

"This is obviously a huge concern. If we are not made aware of these situations, we cannot do contact tracing and notification of those exposed."

Local health records in Utah County showed less than 30% of children 12-18 are fully vaccinated. State law prohibits the Utah County Health Department from requiring camps to follow any coronavirus rules or procedures, Tolman-Hill said.

"All we can do is educate and advocate," she said.

In North Carolina, three out-of-state campers at Camp Daniel Boone Scout Camp in Haywood County tested positive for coronavirus, local health officials said.

The camp canceled its remaining sessions and notified health officials when the trio tested positive on July 14, according to a statement from Daniel Boone Council, Boy Scouts of America. The camp also informed everyone who attended camp during that time of their potential exposure.

The camp had been following its "COVID-19 Mitigation Plan," which was approved by county health officials, the statement said. Mitigation measures included a pre-event medical screening checklist, daily temperature checks, social distancing, a mask requirement for indoor and group settings and handwashing and sanitizing stations throughout the camp.

"These events bring to light that Covid-19 is still prevalent in our community," Haywood County Public Health Director Sarah Henderson said.

"It is not gone, and this is not over. We continue to see an uptick in positive cases as people gather in large groups and remain unvaccinated."

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/18/health/us-coronavirus-sunday/index.html

[Rick Plant]

America after Trump: Mental health expert says 'Dystopian science fiction ... is actually happening'




Donald Trump's regime continues to reveal its "secrets." But these are largely confirmations of what was both publicly and privately known for years about Trump and his allies' perfidious and despicable conduct, disregard for human life, and scheming against American democracy.

New reporting has confirmed what was long predicted: Trump was willing to do anything to stay in power after being defeated in the 2020 election, up to and including ordering the U.S. military to turn against the American people.

As detailed in the new book "I Alone Can Fix It" by Carol Leonnig and Philip Rucker, Gen. Mark Milley, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, along other high-ranking military leaders, feared Trump as a potential Hitler and saw the potential for a "Reichstag fire" incident. Milley reportedly expressed concern in private that Trump would command his neofascist followers, both within and outside the government, to support a coup attempt and otherwise create chaos and violence.

Perhaps most worrisome, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and others at the highest levels of government were concerned that Donald Trump would use nuclear weapons in an act of spite, perhaps to create a global disaster that would permit him to remain in power indefinitely.

If Trump had successfully ordered the United States military to keep him in power by usurping the will of the American people, the result could well have been a second American Civil War. The nation was saved from such an outcome, at least for the moment, through good fortune and the choices of a few real patriots such as Gen. Milley and his allies.

Unfortunately, Trumpism was not routed or finally defeated, and the Trump coup is ongoing. Trump remains in firm control of the Republican Party. At least 30 percent of the American people have been seduced by the Big Lie that the 2020 election was "stolen" from Trump and that Joe Biden is an illegitimate president.

The Jim Crow Republicans are escalating their war on multiracial democracy by proposing laws in numerous states designed to stop Black and brown people and others who support the Democratic Party from voting. The end goal of this anti-democratic campaign is to turn the United States into a plutocratic theocratic fascist state where dissent is not allowed and the Trump-Republican Party rules uncontested.

In a recent interview on MSNBC, historian Timothy Snyder, author of the bestselling book "On Tyranny," described this state of peril: "A failed coup is practice for a successful coup. ... We're now working within the framework of a Big Lie ... so long as we're in that framework of a Big Lie, we can expect one of the parties to try to rig the system."

Like other fascist and fake populist movements, Trumpism draws its power and a type of life force from the slavish loyalty of Trump's followers. Normal politics is fundamentally ill-equipped to grapple with fascism and its commands to ignore reality in deference to the Great Leader, the elevation of that leader into a type of God and extension of the self, and its collective celebration of narcissism and other anti-social behavior including violence and hatred. Ultimately, Trumpism is a cult movement: If Trump and other leaders are the brain and the arms, Trump's followers serve as a hammer meant to smash multiracial democracy.

At the Washington Post, Michael Bender, author of the new book "Frankly, We Did Win This Election: The Inside Story of How Trump Lost," writes about his interactions with Trump's followers:

They were mostly older White men and women who lived paycheck to paycheck with plenty of time on their hands — retired or close to it, estranged from their families or otherwise without children — and Trump had, in a surprising way, made their lives richer. ...

In Trump, they'd found someone whose endless thirst for a fight encouraged them to speak up for themselves, not just in politics but also in relationships and at work. His rallies turned arenas into modern-day tent revivals, where the preacher and the parishioners engaged in an adrenaline-fueled psychic cleansing brought on by chanting and cheering with 15,000 other like-minded loyalists. Saundra Kiczenski, a 56-year-old from Michigan, compared the energy at a Trump rally to the feelings she had as a teenager in 1980 watching the "Miracle on Ice" — when the U.S. Olympic hockey team unexpectedly beat the Soviet Union. ...

Kiczenski was in Washington with friends for the Jan. 6 rally. She was convinced beyond a doubt that Trump had been reelected on Nov. 3, only to have his victory stolen in what she described as "a takeover by the communist devils." She said she believed that, in part, because she had crossed paths with Corey Lewandowski, a well-known and ubiquitous Trump adviser, in the Trump International Hotel the previous summer. Lewandowski told her, she said, that the only way Trump could lose was if there was massive election fraud.

"If someone put a gun to my head and said: 'Did Donald Trump win, yes or no? And if you're wrong, we're going to shoot your head off!' I would say yes," Kiczenski told me. "I'm that confident that this stuff is not made up."

Since at least 2015, many of the country's leading mental health experts warned that Donald Trump was psychologically unstable if not sociopathic or psychopathic, that his movement constituted a cult, and if elected he would bring mass death and human suffering to the United States. These mental health professionals (and others who shared similar concerns) were demeaned as "hysterical" or accused of "Trump derangement syndrome." Many were cautioned to be silent for violating the obsolete and misunderstood "Goldwater rule," which held that mental health professionals are not to warn the public about obviously dangerous people if they have not examined them in person.

Dr. John Gartner is one such voice. He is a psychologist, psychoanalyst and former professor at the Johns Hopkins University Medical School and also the founder of Duty to Warn. He was a contributor to the 2017 bestseller "The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump: 27 Psychiatrists and Mental Health Experts Assess a President," and was featured in the recent documentary "Unfit: The Psychology of Donald Trump."

In our most recent conversation, Gartner reflects on the uncanny accuracy of his predictions that Donald Trump would unleash death, destruction and mayhem on the United States if elected president. He also explains how the pathological knot of control between Trump and his followers continues to hold because of the deposed president's unique "gift" of being able to stimulate the most primitive and violent parts of the human mind. Gartner reflects on the events of Jan. 6, and discusses why Trump's attack force was so excited and aroused by the violence of that day.

How does it feel to have been right about Donald Trump and all the destruction he has caused? Few people heeded your warnings.

The first word that comes to mind is "exhausting." This has been a long war. We keep thinking that we're going to wake up from this nightmare and we never do.

Why are Trump's followers and other neofascists still energized so right now? On the other hand, it appears the so-called resistance has had its will broken.

Some people's minds are organized in a more primitive way. Such people are more action-oriented, as opposed to being thought-oriented. The primitive-minded do not reflect, they don't consider, they don't create. They live in a world which is black and white. In such a mindset they are threatened by "bad people" and therefore must respond aggressively to protect "the homeland." People whose minds are organized in a more primitive way are essentially on a permanent war footing. Compared to other people, that is actually a type of advantage in terms of raw aggression.

Trumpists and other neofascists are engaged in an existential battle. They are fighting a life-and-death struggle, and will not stop until they win. A person who is committed to "normal" politics and the old ways of "consensus" and "bipartisanship," and who believes that somehow things will always turn out fine because of "the institutions" is not able to understand the peril the country is facing.

For these people it is not situational: it is a type of fundamental orientation. People who are organized at this more primitive level are fundamentally angry people. They are also fundamentally paranoid people, and ethnocentric. People who are organized at this more primitive level, who are closer to their evolutionary roots, have a program that a demagogue can activate.

Reviewing all the predictions that you made regarding the Age of Trump, what is the one you wish people had taken more seriously?

Even the people who believed us about the nature of Trump's psychopathology did not believe our warnings about how far he would go. Trump was so deviant from everything that we have ever experienced in America from a president. I remember saying, "He's going to form concentration camps. He will do that." When I was comparing Trump to Hitler, one of the things that people said was, "Oh, come on, you're going too far."

I was wrong about Trump starting a war. I am grateful to be wrong on that prediction. But what I did not realize then was that Trump would engage in germ warfare. I did believe that Donald Trump was going to kill hundreds of thousands of people, and he has. With COVID-19, Trump has killed more than 600,000 people.

Why are so many Americans still surprised by these "revelations" about Trump's wrongdoing as president? Based on his public behavior and what we already knew about him, none of this is a surprise at all.

In a way, we as a society have been so protected and privileged, and lived such a life of peace and sanity, that we don't believe that the dystopian science fiction that we are living today in America is actually happening. There's a certain default option of normality. Nobody wants to give up that default assumption that we are still living in a world of facts and sanity.

How do you assess the events of Jan. 6, with the attack on the Capitol and Trump's attempted coup?

The four traits of malignant narcissism that I've emphasized in my discussions and warnings about Trump and this era are narcissism, paranoia, antisocial personality disorder and sadism. The one trait that is the most important, and the least recognized, is sadism. On Jan. 6, during that attack on the Capitol, there was a sense of carnival for Trump's mob. These people were having fun. There was a weird manic joy, a kind of euphoria, pleasure and excitement at harming other people.

Trump is a sadist, but he's also arousing and tapping into the sadism in his right-wing authoritarian followers. He liberates a level of aggressive energy because one of the beliefs of the right-wing extremist is that aggression should be used for dominance and to enforce conformity and submission. And so aggression is sexualized and celebrated. Freud said there were two kinds of energy, sexual and aggressive. So when you liberate aggressive energy, it's euphoric, elating, you feel alive. So these people felt more alive on Jan. 6 than any other day of their lives.

How does Trump transmit this violence to his followers?

They are already primed for it. Trump just encourages it. The interaction between Trump and the followers creates a whole new state of being. It is almost as if Trump's followers are sleeper cells waiting to be activated by him or some other similarly inclined leader.

How do you explain the connections between the Big Lie, Q-Anon and conspiracy theories more generally?

Noted psychiatrist Robert Jay Lifton developed the concept of "malignant normality." This explains how a malignantly narcissistic leader can change the reality of the society so that people actually believe the Big Lie or other propaganda. It becomes the new conventional wisdom.

Right-wing authoritarians are fundamentally paranoid. Their paranoia functions such that everything that is "bad" is projected outward. It is like a mirror reality for them. Using the Republican Party as an example, they use projection to gaslight: "Whatever I am doing, I will accuse you of doing." Joseph Goebbels said much the same thing: "Accuse them of whatever you're doing."

For the psychopaths at the top who are perpetrating these things, it is not an unconscious psychological process. Instead, it is an intentional strategy. The people who are vulnerable to such a tactic exist in a social context where they live in a bubble of information. They also have personalities ready to believe any paranoid conspiracy theory. It's fundamental to their personality to believe that other bad people are doing crazy things that need to be defended against, and there's really no limit to what those bad people could be doing or what theories you could have about them — especially if you and your group are doing some of those bad things.

I receive many emails and other messages from people who are upset when I issue warnings about Trumpists, Republicans and the white right and their collective commitment to using terrorism and other forms of violence to achieve their goals. Trump's followers are willing to kill and die for him and his movement. What would you tell such people who, even now, are still in deep denial about the reality of the crisis facing the United States?

They are very serious about hurting people. They are very serious about criminalizing resistance to their fascistic one-party rule over the country.

The new book by Washington Post reporters Carol Leonnig and Philip Rucker reveals that during the final days of the Trump regime the highest levels of the military were preparing to disobey Trump's orders in order to save the country's democracy from a coup. They were worried that Trump was behaving like Hitler and could be capable of starting a nuclear war. The Guardian also obtained a document, supposedly from a secret meeting held at the Kremlin, suggesting that Trump was the chosen candidate of Russian leaders because they concluded he was mentally unstable and would be easy to manipulate. I'm wondering how you feel about these apparent confirmations of your warnings?

It's ironic that we were so severely criticized for diagnosing Trump as a malignant narcissist, when it was precisely this diagnosis that proved to the best predictor of his most dangerous behavior. Diagnosis was destiny. If we really allowed ourselves to consider the implications of a leader being this ill, we could have done more to protect ourselves. This would have included invoking the 25th Amendment, which we later learned was widely discussed within his administration.

For example, malignant narcissists don't peacefully transfer power. Period. That's why we warned back in 2017 that there was a high risk that he would initiate a coup or start a war, maybe even a nuclear war, to stay in power. Recent revelations from "Only I Can Fix It" show that both warnings should have been taken more seriously. Gen. Milley felt compelled to take steps to block a coup, and Nancy Pelosi called him to demand a promise that he would not allow "an unstable president" to use the nation's nuclear arsenal.

This alleged Kremlin document also validates our contention that Trump is the real-life "Manchurian Candidate," which many have known for a long time. What's new is that his mental instability was a feature, not a bug, for Vladimir Putin, who assessed Trump as an "impulsive, mentally unstable and unbalanced individual who suffers from an inferiority complex" and whose election would lead "lead to the destabilization of the U.S. sociopolitical system." This gives new meaning to psychological warfare. A Russian stooge as president is unthinkable enough, but a a mentally unstable one could bring the whole country down. The result has been to cripple us. We are almost incapable of shared reality-based thinking and collective action in our national interest on almost anything, including areas that always rallied the nation, like public health and national defense.

If Donald Trump somehow returns to office, either by election or through a successful coup, what will happen?

I believe it will make "The Handmaid's Tale" look like a vacation.

https://www.rawstory.com/john-gartner-on-trump/