Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )

[Jerry Organ]

Uh, no-----------the man caught walking away from the stairway several floors up was suspicious and hence memorable, the guy at the front entrance not at all.

Yes. And on November 22nd, Baker associated that man with Oswald.

Mr Baker's affidavit makes absolutely no reference to the all-important fact that the man caught walking away from the stairway several floors up is the selfsame man he has just seen being brought in in handcuffs. You can't explain this, can you, Mr Organ?

That's the whole reason the encounter (the only one in his affidavit) was mentioned at all. Because as Baker went to give his affidavit, he saw Oswald and remembered him from the earlier encounter. Baker got the room level wrong, understandable given he was never in the building before and wasn't making note of the floor level at the time.

    "Mr. BAKER - I never did have a chance to see him in the lineup. I saw
          him when I went to give the affidavit, the statement that I saw him
          down there, of the actions of myself and Mr. Truly as we went into
          the building and on up what we are discussing now."

Officer Baker told the truth in his 11/22/63 affidavit. Afterwards he was pressurized into supporting the lunchroom fiction. He knew Mr Oswald didn't shoot JFK.

Baker's affidavit doesn't say the man he encountered in the Depository wasn't Oswald (maybe he didn't know Oswald's name when he made his affidavit). And we have his testimony that upon seeing Oswald, he was compelled to add detail about the encounter. Otherwise, the encounter was of no significance as it was just a workman vouched for by Roy Truly.

Super-embarrassing for DPD to admit that their officer made such an extraordinary blunder as to set an obviously suspicious man (caught walking away from the stairway several floors up!) loose.

Not at all embarrassing (your semantic gyrations; now that's embarrassing), as Truly vouched for the man. Oswald was unarmed so how was Baker knowingly letting a killer go?

Also NB!-----the real possibility existed that Mr Oswald's front-entrance alibi would come to light (via e.g. a photo or a courageous witness or three). A story placing Mr Oswald several floors up so soon after the shooting would expose Officer Baker & Mr Truly as liars. A lunchroom story much less risky (physically possible for Mr Oswald to have come up a floor via the front stairs and then gone through the office area or corridor)

Oh dear, Mr Organ, you should do your homework before wading in!

There are multiple references to a front-entrance encounter just after the shooting, e.g.

“As an officer rushed into the building Oswald rushed out. The policeman permitted him to pass after the building manager told the policeman that Oswald was an employee.” (Washington Post 11/23, quoting Chief Jesse Curry)

"Police said that a man who was identified as Oswald walked through the door of the warehouse and was stopped by a policeman. Oswald told the policeman “I work here” and when another employee confirmed that he did, the policeman let Oswald walk away, they said." (Sydney Morning Herald, 11/24).

"As the Presidential limousine sped to the hospital the police dragnet went into action. Hicks said at just about that time, Oswald came out of the front door of the red bricked warehouse. A policeman asked him where he was going. He said he wanted to see what all the excitement was all about." (London Free Press, 11/23, quoting Det. Ed Hicks)

Hard to believe early press reports would get something garbled up. How about the early press report of the mortally-injured Kennedy being removed from Dealey Plaza in a bus?

Amazing that Postal Inspector Harry D. Holmes heard the same story from Mr Oswald. Mr Oswald must have been telepathic!

Here's what actually happened: Officer Baker raced up the steps and, seeking someone to show him the nearest stairway to the roof, asked Mr Oswald (standing by the front door) if he worked there. Mr Oswald said yes, but then Mr Truly arrived and offered to escort Officer Baker. This was later misrepresented as the officer challenging/stopping Mr Oswald.

Officer Baker then met a genuine Person of Interest (not Mr Oswald)--------------several floors up.

All this was known to Captain Fritz the afternoon of 11/22. Mr Oswald's claim to have gone "outside to watch P. Parade", and his story of encountering an officer and Mr Truly at the front entance, checked out.

 

The Fantasy Island reboot will premiere a week from tomorrow. I take it you're booked.

[Bill Chapman]

i) yes, he works at the Depository
ii) yes, he was there, at his place of work, at the time.

Yes, he was also the nut with the high-powered rifle in the tall building who found it not hard to get at a president.

Grin..

[Alan Ford]

Yes. And on November 22nd, Baker associated that man with Oswald.

Nope-----the affidavit makes no such linkage. You lose!

That's the whole reason the encounter (the only one in his affidavit) was mentioned at all. Because as Baker went to give his affidavit, he saw Oswald and remembered him from the earlier encounter. Baker got the room level wrong, understandable given he was never in the building before and wasn't making note of the floor level at the time.

    "Mr. BAKER - I never did have a chance to see him in the lineup. I saw
          him when I went to give the affidavit, the statement that I saw him
          down there, of the actions of myself and Mr. Truly as we went into
          the building and on up what we are discussing now."

The words you quote disprove your claim: Officer Baker tells us here that he went to City Hall in order "to give the affidavit, the statement" about his encounter & the actions of himself and Mr. Truly. Going in to give his statement, he was already well aware, in retrospect, of the likely significance of the encounter with the man caught walking away from the rear stairway several floors up. That encounter was the chief point of the statement he went in to give.

Baker's affidavit doesn't say the man he encountered in the Depository wasn't Oswald (maybe he didn't know Oswald's name when he made his affidavit).

OK, so all he has to do is say, "I have just seen this man brought into the Homicide Office in custody". Yet he doesn't. You lose!

And we have his testimony that upon seeing Oswald, he was compelled to add detail about the encounter.

Where in his testimony does he say that upon seeing Mr Oswald he was compelled to add detail about the encounter? Or are you just compelled to make this detail up because your argument is so weak?

Otherwise, the encounter was of no significance as it was just a workman vouched for by Roy Truly.

Why would a Depository employee have been incapable of being the gunman? Kindly explain your logic, Mr Organ!

Not at all embarrassing (your semantic gyrations; now that's embarrassing), as Truly vouched for the man. Oswald was unarmed so how was Baker knowingly letting a killer go?

Where are you getting 'knowingly' from, Mr Organ? Learn to read, sir!

The decision to let a man caught walking away from the rear stairway several floors up was a major error of judgment. Again, why would being an employee rule someone out as a gunman?

Hard to believe early press reports would get something garbled up. How about the early press report of the mortally-injured Kennedy being removed from Dealey Plaza in a bus?

Ah, so now you accept that there were indeed---------contrary to your earlier assertion---------multiple reports of a front entrance encounter! 

And you obviously can't explain Mr Oswald's own telepathic placing of the encounter just there! 

The Fantasy Island reboot will premiere a week from tomorrow. I take it you're booked.

Another weak cope 

[Zeon Mason]

Did Fritz add the part about Oswald being surprised by officer with gun pointed at him?

If encounter is at the TSBD front door or just inside the front lobby , Baker hasn’t drawn his gun yet, so Oswald as PM would not likely  have made any statement about a gun

Pauline Sanders would have likely elaborated more detail on seeing officer if some encounter happened right at  the front door if it involved officer with gun drawn?

since Baker states drawing out his gun when reaching the FIRST staircase, there might be a higher probability of an encounter with Oswald at the storage room just beside the front staircase and the passenger elevator.

There is not enough time for PM to get much farther into the front entrance lobby (preceding Baker) than to approximately near the storage room and front staircase, as per the Darnell film showing Baker arriving almost to the front steps and PM can still be seen not having moved from the west corner of the entrance landing.

There is the possibility that PM Is one of the two men Baker states he saw just as Baker entered the TSBD, one being near the elevator and the other some 20 ft away .

[Jerry Organ]

Nope-----the affidavit makes no such linkage. You lose!

The words you quote disprove your claim: Officer Baker tells us here that he went to City Hall in order "to give the affidavit, the statement" about his encounter & the actions of himself and Mr. Truly. Going in to give his statement, he was already well aware, in retrospect, of the likely significance of the encounter with the man caught walking away from the rear stairway several floors up. That encounter was the chief point of the statement he went in to give.

    "Mr. BAKER - I never did have a chance to see him in the lineup. I saw
          him when I went to give the affidavit, the statement that I saw him
          down there, of the actions of myself and Mr. Truly as we went into
          the building and on up what we are discussing now."

Since the details of the encounter takes about 15% of the affidavit, I doubt Baker was mainly going to give his affidavit about the encounter. Hardly the "chief point". And in his testimony, Baker says he saw the man mentioned in the only encounter in the affidavit, Oswald.

OK, so all he has to do is say, "I have just seen this man brought into the Homicide Office in custody". Yet he doesn't. You lose!

Nah. You lose because Baker says nothing about your fantasy encounter with Oswald at the entrance. Instead he sees Oswald and then makes his affidavit describing the encounter inside the building. Direct linkage.

Where in his testimony does he say that upon seeing Mr Oswald he was compelled to add detail about the encounter? Or are you just compelled to make this detail up because your argument is so weak?

"I saw him when I went to give the affidavit."

Why would a Depository employee have been incapable of being the gunman? Kindly explain your logic, Mr Organ!

Where are you getting 'knowingly' from, Mr Organ? Learn to read, sir!

The decision to let a man caught walking away from the rear stairway several floors up was a major error of judgment. Again, why would being an employee rule someone out as a gunman?

He's ruled out because Truly vouched for him. Should Baker have let the man go, or shoot the man and Truly? No error in judgment at all. BTW, why would Baker and Truly lie about a second-floor with Oswald when they supposedly had a fourth-floor encounter that would put Oswald nearer the sixth floor? Why would Oswald go along with the encounter with Baker and Truly at the back of the building?

Ah, so now you accept that there were indeed---------contrary to your earlier assertion---------multiple reports of a front entrance encounter! 

You're good at gas-lighting. I suggested to you that early press reports aren't reliable. That's why inquires are conducted.

And you obviously can't explain Mr Oswald's own telepathic placing of the encounter just there! 

Another weak cope 

All we have from you is semantics and showing your gullibility by citing early press reports. Yawn.

[Bill Chapman]

    "Mr. BAKER - I never did have a chance to see him in the lineup. I saw
          him when I went to give the affidavit, the statement that I saw him
          down there, of the actions of myself and Mr. Truly as we went into
          the building and on up what we are discussing now."

Since the details of the encounter takes about 15% of the affidavit, I doubt Baker was mainly going to give his affidavit about the encounter. Hardly the "chief point". And in his testimony, Baker says he saw the man mentioned in the only encounter in the affidavit, Oswald.

Nah. You lose because Baker says nothing about your fantasy encounter with Oswald at the entrance. Instead he sees Oswald and then makes his affidavit describing the encounter inside the building. Direct linkage.

"I saw him when I went to give the affidavit."

He's ruled out because Truly vouched for him. Should Baker have let the man go, or shoot the man and Truly? No error in judgment at all. BTW, why would Baker and Truly lie about a second-floor with Oswald when they supposedly had a fourth-floor encounter that would put Oswald nearer the sixth floor? Why would Oswald go along with the encounter with Baker and Truly at the back of the building?



You're good at gas-lighting. I suggested to you that early press reports aren't reliable. That's why inquires are conducted.

All we have from you is semantics and showing your gullibility by citing early press reports. Yawn.

To OAKers (aka Oswald Arse Kissers) inquiries and investigations are denounced and derided as nothing more than 'excuses', 'explanations' and/or flat-out 'coverups'. I have encountered those very same adolescent conclusions amongst GOP supporters in the political arena.

But what else can one expect from high school drop-outs?

[Zeon Mason]

What if  Oswald/PM did  NOT precede Baker into the TSBD lobby?

Here’s the scenario

Oswald /PM was observing Baker approaching the front entrance steps and remained in that west corner of entrance landing as Baker runs up the east side of the center handrail front steps and Baker enters the TSBD front lobby area.

PM may or may not have have observed Truly run up the steps , however Truly could easily have NOT noticed Oswald in the west corner.

Oswald waits about 15 seconds longer and then decides he should return and get his jacket from a place in the 2nd floor lunchroom where He had taken it off earlier about 12:15, and where Oswald was seen by. Carolyn Arnold.

If Oswald uses the passenger elevator rather than the front lobby staircase, then there is a plausible probability of an encounter with Baker seeing Oswald either going thru the 2nd floor vestibule zone when Baker /Truly arrive to 2nd floor landing using the rear staircase.

This possible scenario works only if Mrs Reid’s story is either false or a mistaken memory of some earlier encounter with Oswald.

[Alan Ford]

Did Fritz add the part about Oswald being surprised by officer with gun pointed at him?

If encounter is at the TSBD front door or just inside the front lobby , Baker hasn’t drawn his gun yet,

We don't know that--------all we have is Officer Baker's MUCH later claim on it. We may even be seeing Officer Baker already holding a gun in the Darnell frames...........

so Oswald as PM would not likely  have made any statement about a gun

Pauline Sanders would have likely elaborated more detail on seeing officer if some encounter happened right at  the front door if it involved officer with gun drawn?

Well, this same Ms Sanders also (in the same interview report) thought Mr Oswald and Mr Truly were lunching together in the second-floor lunchroom----------she evidently didn't notice Mr Truly go up those front steps! It is astonishing how few people noticed Officer Baker and/or Mr Truly's run into the front entrance........