Users Currently Browsing This Topic:
0 Members

Author Topic: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )  (Read 224990 times)

Offline Alan Ford

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4820
Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #1552 on: July 26, 2021, 01:00:36 AM »
Advertisement
Why would not Oswald at least tell his brother about the front steps?

Why not tell Marina

Because Captain Fritz let him believe he was accused of involvement in the shooting (i.e. supplying the rifle). Mr Oswald had no idea he stood accused of being himself the gunman. Therefore the question of an alibi for the actual shooting did not (he thought) arise.

Captain Fritz asked him in the first interrogation where he was at the time JFK passed the building, and Mr Oswald told him straight: I went outside to watch the Presidential Parade. Captain Fritz soon established that this claimed alibi checked out. From then on he manipulated his suspect into believing he was believed on this score. Smart play from Crooked Fritz!
« Last Edit: July 26, 2021, 01:07:22 AM by Alan Ford »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #1552 on: July 26, 2021, 01:00:36 AM »


Offline Alan Ford

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4820
Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #1553 on: July 26, 2021, 01:06:38 AM »
Mr. HOLMES. He said when lunchtime came he was working in one of the upper floors with a Negro.
The Negro said, "Come on and let's eat lunch together."
Apparently both of them having a sack lunch. And he said, "You go ahead, send the elevator back up to me and I will come down just as soon as I am finished."
And he didn't say what he was doing. There was a commotion outside, which he later rushed downstairs to go out to see what was going on. He didn't say whether he took the stairs down. He didn't say whether he took the elevator down.
But he went downstairs, and as he went out the front, it seems as though he did have a coke with him, or he stopped at the coke machine, or somebody else was trying to get a coke, but there was a coke involved.
He mentioned something about a coke. But a police officer asked him who he was, and just as he started to identify himself, his superintendent came up and said, "He is one of our men." And the policeman said, "Well, you step aside for a little bit."
Then another man rushed in past him as he started out the door, in this vestibule part of it, and flashed some kind of credential and he said, "Where is your telephone, where is your telephone, and said I am so and so, where is your telephone."
And he said, "I didn't look at the credential. I don't know who he said he was, and I just pointed to the phone and said, 'there it is,' and went on out the door."


JohnM

Mr. BELIN. By the way, where did this policeman stop him when he was coming down the stairs at the Book Depository on the day of the shooting?
Mr. HOLMES. He said it was in the vestibule.
Mr. BELIN. He said he was in the vestibule?
Mr. HOLMES. Or approaching the door to the vestibule. He was just coming, apparently, and I have never been in there myself. Apparently there is two sets of doors, and he had come out to this front part.
Mr. BELIN. Did he state it was on what floor?
Mr. HOLMES. First floor. The front entrance to the first floor.


 Thumb1:

Offline John Mytton

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4236
Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #1554 on: July 26, 2021, 03:13:11 AM »
Mr. BELIN. By the way, where did this policeman stop him when he was coming down the stairs at the Book Depository on the day of the shooting?
Mr. HOLMES. He said it was in the vestibule.
Mr. BELIN. He said he was in the vestibule?
Mr. HOLMES. Or approaching the door to the vestibule. He was just coming, apparently, and I have never been in there myself. Apparently there is two sets of doors, and he had come out to this front part.
Mr. BELIN. Did he state it was on what floor?
Mr. HOLMES. First floor. The front entrance to the first floor.


 Thumb1:

Mr. BELIN - Officer Baker, first of all, handing you what the court reporter has marked as Exhibit 498, I would like you to state if you know whether or not this appears to be the door leading from the second floor hallway into the vestibule going into the lunchroom.
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir; it does.


Mr. BELIN. What did you see?
Mr. TRULY. I heard some voices, or a voice, coming from the area of the lunchroom, or the inside vestibule, the area of 24.






JohnM

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #1554 on: July 26, 2021, 03:13:11 AM »


Offline Alan Ford

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4820
Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #1555 on: July 27, 2021, 10:03:40 AM »
Mr. BELIN - Officer Baker, first of all, handing you what the court reporter has marked as Exhibit 498, I would like you to state if you know whether or not this appears to be the door leading from the second floor hallway into the vestibule going into the lunchroom.
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir; it does.


Mr. BELIN. What did you see?
Mr. TRULY. I heard some voices, or a voice, coming from the area of the lunchroom, or the inside vestibule, the area of 24.






JohnM

Exactly -- the word 'vestibule' was slyly assigned a sense other than its obvious, primary one (i.e. front lobby). Mr Oswald in custody had used the word vestibule, by which he meant front lobby. The word needed to be made safe, which is what we see Messrs Belin, Baker & Truly doing here.

On 11/22/63 DPD told the world all about where Mr Oswald and the officer and the manager had their encounter: front entrance, just after the shooting. Mr Oswald, without being aware of any of these dispatches to the press, gave the very same location. Quelle coincidence!!

Offline Zeon Mason

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 923
Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #1556 on: July 28, 2021, 03:37:43 AM »
So Fritz tells Oswald that they’ve checked out his P. Parade alibi and that Oswald need not worry about being charged with murder?

If Mr. Ford’s ingenious conjecture is correct, then Fritz  confused Oswald To such degree that Oswald at the midnight press conference makes that statement “ I don’t know what all this is about” followed up by response to shooting the President with “ I haven’t been charged with that?

So What to make of Oswald the next day in the hallway   recorded on film in a brief moment saying “ I categorically deny these charges”?


JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #1556 on: July 28, 2021, 03:37:43 AM »


Offline Walt Cakebread

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7322
Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #1557 on: July 28, 2021, 07:41:55 PM »
Mr. BELIN - Officer Baker, first of all, handing you what the court reporter has marked as Exhibit 498, I would like you to state if you know whether or not this appears to be the door leading from the second floor hallway into the vestibule going into the lunchroom.
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir; it does.


Mr. BELIN. What did you see?
Mr. TRULY. I heard some voices, or a voice, coming from the area of the lunchroom, or the inside vestibule, the area of 24.






JohnM

Verrrrry interrresting.....  Thank you Mr M....   So Mr Truly testified that officer Baker was in the vestibule...( area 24)   NOT the lunchroom......when he  ordered Lee to "come here".....   

Mr. TRULY. I heard some voices, or a voice, coming from the area of the lunchroom, or the inside vestibule, the area of 24.

Surely you know that Baker testified that he was INSIDE the lunchroom when he asked if Lee worked there.....

Offline Rick Plant

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8177
Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #1558 on: July 29, 2021, 12:57:23 AM »
Mr. Ball: And you asked him again, didn't you, what he was doing at the time the President was shot?
Mr. FRITZ: Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL: What did he say?
Mr. FRITZ: Well, he told me about the same story about this lunch.
Mr. BALL: He mentioned who he was having lunch with, did he not?
Mr. FRITZ: Yes, sir; he told me he was having lunch when the President was shot.
Mr. BALL: With whom?
Mr. FRITZ: With someone called Junior, someone he worked with down there, but he didn't remember the other boy's name.
Mr. BALL: Did he tell you what he was eating?
Mr. FRITZ: He told me, I believe, that he had, I am doing this from memory, a cheese sandwich, and he also mentioned he had some fruit, I had forgotten about the fruit until I looked at this report.
Mr. BALL: Did he say that was in the package he had brought from home?
Mr. FRITZ: Yes, sir; there was one reason I asked him about what was in the package, we had had a story that had been circulated around the meantime about some chicken bones, I am sure you heard of that, and I wanted to find for sure what he did have in his lunch and he told me about having--he told me they did not have any chicken out there and I also talked with the Paines and they told me they didn't have any chicken in the icebox, they did have some cheese.
Mr. BALL: But he said he had had lunch with Junior?
Mr. FRITZ: Yes, sir; and with someone else.
Mr. BALL. Did you find out that there was an employee named Junior, a man that was nicknamed Junior at the Texas School Book Depository?
Mr. FRITZ: Probably we have it here, some of the officers probably did, we had all these people checked out. I didn't do it myself probably.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #1558 on: July 29, 2021, 12:57:23 AM »


Offline Jerry Organ

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2313
Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #1559 on: July 29, 2021, 12:59:20 AM »
Verrrrry interrresting.....  Thank you Mr M....   So Mr Truly testified that officer Baker was in the vestibule...( area 24)   NOT the lunchroom......when he  ordered Lee to "come here".....   

Mr. TRULY. I heard some voices, or a voice, coming from the area of the lunchroom, or the inside vestibule, the area of 24.

Surely you know that Baker testified that he was INSIDE the lunchroom when he asked if Lee worked there.....



You sure know how to split a hair. Baker's position as far as he got is "B-2".

    "Mr. BELIN - As you called you say you remembered moving forward
          and. meeting him right in the doorway which would be marked with
          the arrow with number 24 on it on Exhibit 497, is that right?
     Mr. BAKER - That is right, sir.
     Mr. BELIN - After you got there, did you move until the man came up
          to you?
     Mr. BAKER - No, sir.