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Author Topic: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )  (Read 225078 times)

Online Dan O'meara

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #632 on: November 26, 2020, 01:11:00 AM »
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Good afternoon, Mr. O'meara

Until actual evidence presents itself that at least one more person--besides Mr. Piper (Eddie) actually confirms they saw the tandem of Baker & Roy Truly ascend the backstairs together it did not happen. Moreover, what's most disturbing about even Mr. Piper's acknowledgment of them being together is the following statements ---->

Mr. BALL. You mentioned you saw Truly?
Mr. PIPER. I don't know whether it was a policeman or FBI or who it was, but another fellow was with him.
Mr. BALL And where were you?
Mr. PIPER. Standing right there where they make coffee.


Critical thinkers--given Mr. Piper's expressed doubt about just who he sees w/Roy Truly are left to wonder why he cannot simply confirm he saw a white helmeted motorcycle officer in long black boots w/Roy Truly IF indeed the tandem were together.

Good evening Mr. Ford

You must surely be aware of the Stroud Document which contains a reference to Dorothy Garner seeing Truly and a policeman coming up the stairs. As we now have the evidence you seek we can conclude the ascent of Truly and Baker did happen.

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I do believe that Baker and Roy Truly came together at some point that afternoon (just not the timing sequence pushed by the hastily contrived script to frame an innocent party). I believe they encountered the MUCH larger man (165lbs) than the wrongly accused (131lbs) on an upper floor beyond the 2nd floor lunchroom, let alone inside it.  However, once the hastily contrived script raises its deceptive head the next day to reinvent. revise and ignore the same day events, the stench of horse manure becomes rather obvious.

In a conversation with Barry Ernest, Garner states that Adams and Styles left the fourth floor window almost immediately, something confirmed by both Styles and Adams. She followed them out of the office to a storage area and heard them clattering down the stairs. Shortly afterwards she saw Truly and the policeman come up. Entirely in keeping with Truly and Baker's testimony concerning the timing of their ascent. As she was in the storage area other women from the office entered to look through the west windows down on to the railroad area. This is confirmed by Bonnie Ray Williams who states seeing these women at the window as he, Jarman and Norman descended the stairs. Interestingly, before descending the stairs from the fifth floor, Williams testifies to seeing a white-helmeted officer on the fifth. Again, in keeping with the testimonies of Truly and Baker. The timings of these interactions fit perfectly with the ascent of Truly and Baker.
However, what really interests me is the "hastily contrived script" as you put it. I'd like to know who put it together and the timeline of it.

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Then there's this exchange ----> 

Mr. BELIN. When did you get over to the southeast corner of the sixth floor?
Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer. I don't remember when I went over there. It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases.


Critical-thinkers are left to wonder what exactly was Roy Truly up to over in the sniper's nest BEFORE the gun and shell casings were found...

Again, I would believe the exploits of Baker & Roy Truly if more than a single lone person can account for them being near the backstairs together. Only Mr. Piper, 1-69 witnesses does so. I will never be convinced that Ms. Adams, etc were deaf and/or blind to account for the reason they didn't bear witness to seeing the tandem together.

Still wondering aloud why Roy Truly was over in the sniper's nest BEFORE the gun and shell casings were found. Hmm

Adams and Styles were down the stairs and out the back door before Baker and Truly got there which is why they didn't see Baker and Truly.
It is interesting that Truly seems to state he was mooching around the sixth floor before the gun and shell casings were found. I'm going to look into that out of curiosity but it has nothing to do with the matter I'd like to pursue - who came up with the hastily contrived script and how did it come together in it's final form.
Any thoughts?
« Last Edit: November 26, 2020, 01:11:55 AM by Dan O'meara »

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #632 on: November 26, 2020, 01:11:00 AM »


Offline Zeon Mason

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #633 on: December 07, 2020, 03:33:49 AM »
Pertaining to the Dorothy Garner time line of exiting the 4th floor office side door and having an unobstructed LOS to the rear stair, I estimated the time not later than 35 sec post shots.

1. Adams and Styles did leave the office as early as 10 sec post shots (hence their absence at the one open window of 4th floor in the Dillard photo) and reached the 1st floor, using the rear staircase  by 60 secs post shots. They exited 1st floor via  a roll up door right beside the stairs and the west elevator. Thus they neither saw, or were seen by,Baker and Truly as B/T began their diagonal approach across the 1st floor towards the rear stair and elevators at approx 65 sec post shots

2. For Mrs Garner to have a reasonable probability of having heard.”THEM” (ie; voices or some kind of specific noise like heels clacking,) , requires Mrs Garner arriving to the west window 4th floor just beside the rear staircase not later than approx 50 sec post shots.
The noises/voices heard were possibly transmitted via the open west elevator shaft ( the elevator being locked on the 5th floor) from Adams and Styles on the 2nd floor , passing by the elevator shaft.
Note: it is doubtful if voices at normal talking decibel range ( as opposed to shouting like Truly did) could be transmitted up an elevator shaft 4 floors below and heard by Garner some 25 ft away from the shaft on the 4th floor.

3.Therefore the lowest probable floor to have voice transmission heard is the  2nd floor passing by the west elevator shaft at 50 sec post shots by Adams and Styles

4. The distance from the 4th floor side office door to the staircase is approx 70 ft and if Mrs Garner walked at a normal 5ft/ sec pace, she would have her to exit at 35sec post shots to arrive and be in place near the stair by 50 sec post shots

5. It is impossible for Oswald to have reached the 4th floor landing in 35 secs, let alone cross 15 more ft landing and also go down approx 1/4th so being completely out of LOS of

6.Oswald at best could reach the 4th floor landing, cross it, and go down part of the 4th to 3rd staircase not earlier than approx 60 secs shots

A. 5 secs to slowly withdraw rifle from
SE window 6th floor TSBD and exit the SN
B.25 sec travel 180ft at double time speed 8ft/ sec ( 3 secs added for acceleration and acceleration to full
Stop.
C.5 sec to wedge rifle into the gap between walls of boxes with only 1”gap
D. 5 sec travel to top step of staircase To begin descent from 6th floor
E. This at 40 sec post shots, earliest probable time to begin a descent down the staircase.
F. Fastest probable descent via 18 step staircase and 15 to 20 ft of landing distance is approx 10 sec/ floor= 60 sec to reach 4th floor, cross landing and begin down staircase to 3rd floor.

Note: above times do NOT include any time for wiping prints off the rifle this a question if such wiping could occur Simultaneously while running with rifle in hand. If that is improbable then about 5-7 more secs must be added.

7. If Mrs Garner waits until 60 secs posts shots before exiting the 4th floor office door, she would have arrived near the staircase at 73 seconds , thus impossible to have heard Adams and Styles voices/heels clacking or whatever it was they made Garner decide she did in fact hear “THEM” on the staircase, The reason being that Adams and Styles are OUT OF THE BUILDING by 65 sec post shots!

If Mrs Garner is still alive ? It would be a slam dunk end to the WC timeline if she should categorically state having heard  Adams and Stylez voices or some specific noise such as double pair of heels clacking.

Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #634 on: December 07, 2020, 07:34:18 AM »
The hoax is definitely set in the second floor lunchroom.

Explain your reasoning of this being a "hoax". 

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #634 on: December 07, 2020, 07:34:18 AM »


Online Dan O'meara

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #635 on: December 07, 2020, 11:42:39 AM »
Explain your reasoning of this being a "hoax".

Are you aware that the second floor lunchroom encounter between Oswald, Baker and Truly, as reported by Baker and Truly in their WC testimonies, is thought, by some to be a hoax, it never happened, it was made up?

Online Dan O'meara

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #636 on: December 09, 2020, 11:19:09 AM »
Explain your reasoning of this being a "hoax".

As I say Rick, for certain parties it is important that this encounter between Oswald, Baker and Truly in the second floor lunchroom didn't happen. It really spoils their models for what happened that day.
So they propose the whole thing is a hoax and there seems to be plenty of contradictory testimony to support this assertion.
But the "Hoax Theory" is put forward as a reality that explains certain things and, to my mind at least, you don't just get to propose something as a reality then not explain the "mechanics" of this reality.
You don't just conjure up something out of thin air as a reality then not justify the basis of that reality.
So, if the Hoax is real:

Who created it?
What are it's origins?
Who is directing it?
Who is involved?

These are simple, reasonable questions that must be answered by anyone proposing the "2FLRE Hoax Theory" as a reality.
Anyone who looks into this will quickly discover how ridiculous the notion of the Hoax is. As soon as one tries to explain the Hoax as a reality it vanishes leaving the prospect that the encounter did indeed take place.

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #636 on: December 09, 2020, 11:19:09 AM »


Online Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #637 on: December 09, 2020, 05:47:06 PM »
As I say Rick, for certain parties it is important that this encounter between Oswald, Baker and Truly in the second floor lunchroom didn't happen. It really spoils their models for what happened that day.
So they propose the whole thing is a hoax and there seems to be plenty of contradictory testimony to support this assertion.
But the "Hoax Theory" is put forward as a reality that explains certain things and, to my mind at least, you don't just get to propose something as a reality then not explain the "mechanics" of this reality.
You don't just conjure up something out of thin air as a reality then not justify the basis of that reality.
So, if the Hoax is real:

Who created it?
What are it's origins?
Who is directing it?
Who is involved?

These are simple, reasonable questions that must be answered by anyone proposing the "2FLRE Hoax Theory" as a reality.
Anyone who looks into this will quickly discover how ridiculous the notion of the Hoax is. As soon as one tries to explain the Hoax as a reality it vanishes leaving the prospect that the encounter did indeed take place.
Good post. And your questions about how this second floor "hoax" was undertaken - who directed it, who wrote the script, how did they get the "actors" to follow is - can be applied to a myriad of claims by conspiracists about how the evidence was manufactured or planted or falsified.

The general conspiracy claim (yes, there are many) is that a wide range of people including both powerful figures who directed/ordered it and ordinary people who carried it out at some point and in some way and in some place got together and carried out the assassination of the president of the United States. Again, the president; this was not robbing a 7/11. When we ask for evidence for this we really get nothing. It's all conjecture, speculation and theories. It's been more than half a century and all of these people who were involved remained silent? It's absurd.

You cannot carry out the intricate conspiracy that the general conspiracists claim happened. Not carry it out. Not keep it quiet. Not plan it in secrecy. It simply cannot be done. But I'm drinking the government Kool-aid and "Look at all of these odd things!!" and JFK was hated and he was going to end the Cold War and pull out of Vietnam and they had to stop him and et cetera et cetera
« Last Edit: December 09, 2020, 06:04:54 PM by Steve M. Galbraith »

Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #638 on: December 10, 2020, 12:33:39 AM »
As I say Rick, for certain parties it is important that this encounter between Oswald, Baker and Truly in the second floor lunchroom didn't happen. It really spoils their models for what happened that day.
So they propose the whole thing is a hoax and there seems to be plenty of contradictory testimony to support this assertion.
But the "Hoax Theory" is put forward as a reality that explains certain things and, to my mind at least, you don't just get to propose something as a reality then not explain the "mechanics" of this reality.
You don't just conjure up something out of thin air as a reality then not justify the basis of that reality.
So, if the Hoax is real:

Who created it?
What are it's origins?
Who is directing it?
Who is involved?

These are simple, reasonable questions that must be answered by anyone proposing the "2FLRE Hoax Theory" as a reality.
Anyone who looks into this will quickly discover how ridiculous the notion of the Hoax is. As soon as one tries to explain the Hoax as a reality it vanishes leaving the prospect that the encounter did indeed take place.

Who created it?
>>> 'They'

What are it's origins?
>>> People are saying

Who is directing it?
>>> 'They'

Who is involved?
>>> Anybody but Oswald
« Last Edit: December 10, 2020, 12:55:08 AM by Bill Chapman »

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #638 on: December 10, 2020, 12:33:39 AM »


Online Dan O'meara

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #639 on: December 10, 2020, 11:01:04 AM »
Good post. And your questions about how this second floor "hoax" was undertaken - who directed it, who wrote the script, how did they get the "actors" to follow is - can be applied to a myriad of claims by conspiracists about how the evidence was manufactured or planted or falsified.

The general conspiracy claim (yes, there are many) is that a wide range of people including both powerful figures who directed/ordered it and ordinary people who carried it out at some point and in some way and in some place got together and carried out the assassination of the president of the United States. Again, the president; this was not robbing a 7/11. When we ask for evidence for this we really get nothing. It's all conjecture, speculation and theories. It's been more than half a century and all of these people who were involved remained silent? It's absurd.

You cannot carry out the intricate conspiracy that the general conspiracists claim happened. Not carry it out. Not keep it quiet. Not plan it in secrecy. It simply cannot be done. But I'm drinking the government Kool-aid and "Look at all of these odd things!!" and JFK was hated and he was going to end the Cold War and pull out of Vietnam and they had to stop him and et cetera et cetera

Hi Steve,
you've extrapolated quite a bit from a specific incident to the assassination as a whole. As I point out, it is the case that anyone supporting the 2FLRE Hoax theory should answer certain questions relating to it's reality but the same is true for your position.

In reply #640 I responded to a post of Bill's with this (he failed to respond):

"If it was as simple as that Bill then everyone's story would be very straight-forward. No need for the deception, falsehoods and confusion that permeate the testimonies of many who worked at the TSBD. Everyone would have a pretty good idea of where they were and what they were doing, sure some insignificant details would get mixed up, that's human nature, but the wholesale fabrications that take place are ridiculous.
We can agree to disagree on that. You may be able to rationalise it but it's not something I can ignore."


Why is there clearly so much deception and falsehood in the WC testimonies of certain TSBD employees. If it was as straight-forward as you propose none of this confusion would ever have arisen.