Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )

[Alan Ford]

I may be wrong, but I don't believe that's what James is saying at all.
As Weigman's camera sweeps in front of the TSBD there are two distinct moments the area of the front steps are shown.
One is as the camera naturally sweeps around going past the the area of the steps (WI) and a second time when the camera suddenly pans back to that area for a very brief moment (W2).
In WI (as James shows in his graphic) it appears that Lovelady is on the top step. When the camera pans back to the steps it seems as if Lovelady has moved down a step or two.
I'm assuming that James' graphic is showing that movement between W1 and W2.
And, even though I've examined Altgens 6 dozens of times, I haven't taken on board how Lovelady's body is twisted so that it is almost front-on to Altgens' position. This would make it side-on to Weigman's position.
All we have to do is imagine that Lovelady's body position is the same as in Altgens 6 but, instead of looking towards Altgens, Lovelady is looking to his left. And Hey Presto! This is what we see in Weigman's frames (W2).
Exactly as I've been saying all along. 

Huh? You said Mr. Lovelady is looking over his shoulder, lol

And no, we are certainly not being asked to imagine that "Lovelady's body position is the same as in Altgens 6"!



All of which said! I do see now that 3D Mr. Lovelady's left leg goes down a step:



However, this makes matters worse. If Mr. Lovelady's left foot is already taking him forward/down a step, then having him bend forward deeply like a 95-year-old is fanciful, to say the least. And the idea that he then stays there in that geriatric posture across several frames is downright absurd.....................



Not that even THAT extreme contrivance yields a visually credible reconstruction of what Wiegman is showing.

We need to see a scaled 2-image overlay GIF containing:

a) this Wiegman frame


b) the proposed 3D equivalent

 

[Dan O'meara]

Huh? You said Mr. Lovelady is looking over his shoulder, lol

And no, we are certainly not being asked to imagine that "Lovelady's body position is the same as in Altgens 6"!



All of which said! I do see now that 3D Mr. Lovelady's left leg goes down a step:



However, this makes matters worse. If Mr. Lovelady's left foot is already taking him forward/down a step, then having him bend forward deeply like a 95-year-old is fanciful, to say the least. And the idea that he then stays there in that geriatric posture across several frames is downright absurd.....................



Not that even THAT extreme contrivance yields a visually credible reconstruction of what Wiegman is showing.

We need to see a scaled 2-image overlay GIF containing:

a) this Wiegman frame


b) the proposed 3D equivalent

 

Hmmm...
A couple of points to make.
I take it that you do now agree that James' graphic represents Lovelady's movement between W1 and W2?
You just seem to skirt over this issue without accepting or refusing it.
I think you should clarify your position on that.

Huh? You said Mr. Lovelady is looking over his shoulder, lol

You seem to think that I've changed my position on that.
What I've described in the post you were responding to is Lovelady looking out towards Weigman's position over his left shoulder.
I'm saying the same thing but you seem a little confused.
Maybe I wasn't clear enough on this point.
People's heads can turn to the left and to the right without their torso moving it's all in the neck.
If Lovelady's body is turned facing Weigman side-on, as Altgens 6 seems to suggest, when he turns his head to the left he is looking towards Weigman's position over his left shoulder.
I honestly don't think I can put this in a simpler, more understandable way.

And no, we are certainly not being asked to imagine that "Lovelady's body position is the same as in Altgens 6"!

Erm...yes, you are.
I asked it in the post you were responding to.
Lovelady's body is turned to face Altgens around z255.
The W2 frames can only be a few seconds before z255 [I'm just guessing this but it seems right].
So, why wouldn't Lovelady's body position be the same in Altgens 6 and the W2 frames?

[Alan Ford]

Hmmm...
A couple of points to make.
I take it that you do now agree that James' graphic represents Lovelady's movement between W1 and W2?

Yes--------already clarified, Mr. O'Meara 

This is how able-bodied people go down steps:



If, on the other hand, you have evidence that Mr. Lovelady had injured his back while working on the floor-laying project, share it with us!



Otherwise, this imagined posture is just too fanciful to be seriously countenanced.

Mr. Hackerott-----of whose 3D modeling talents I am in sincere awe------deserves credit for being the only person to attempt some solution that does NOT take wild recourse to an impossible shadow being cast in that part of the doorway. That his solution doesn't work, even after intensive imaginative contorting of Mr. Lovelady's body, only proves my point------------------and explains eloquently why everyone else has run away from the challenge up to this.

This fancied scenario of 3D Mr. Lovelady stooping low just to take a step down represents the reductio ad absurdum of the 'No Fake Shadow' position:



That it's good enough to convince Mr. Collins, who automatically laps up anything he sees as shoring up the official story, should make alarm bells go off in your head. Then again, you are as fanatical a member of Team Keep LHO Off Them Steps as he is, so birds of a feather etc.

People's heads can turn to the left and to the right without their torso moving it's all in the neck.
If Lovelady's body is turned facing Weigman side-on, as Altgens 6 seems to suggest, when he turns his head to the left he is looking towards Weigman's position over his left shoulder.

'Lovelady looking over his left shoulder'



Are you okay, Mr. O'Meara? Seriously, I'm worried.......................

 

[James Hackerott]

Huh? You said Mr. Lovelady is looking over his shoulder, lol

And no, we are certainly not being asked to imagine that "Lovelady's body position is the same as in Altgens 6"!



All of which said! I do see now that 3D Mr. Lovelady's left leg goes down a step:



However, this makes matters worse. If Mr. Lovelady's left foot is already taking him forward/down a step, then having him bend forward deeply like a 95-year-old is fanciful, to say the least. And the idea that he then stays there in that geriatric posture across several frames is downright absurd.....................



Not that even THAT extreme contrivance yields a visually credible reconstruction of what Wiegman is showing.

We need to see a scaled 2-image overlay GIF containing:

a) this Wiegman frame


b) the proposed 3D equivalent

 

Here is the requested 2 frame GIF depicting my W2 pose with a Weisberg full frame image. The doorway frame required reprocessing with a camera tilt to match the reference frame. Note that while reviewing my notes I realized I transposed the values for “TorsoRot” for the W1 and W2 positions. I’ve corrected that mistake in this and future forthcoming work. I’m redoing the animations, but  I don’t expect substantive changes. Not sure what to do with the Bobblehead GIF?

[Chris Davidson]

There could never be two heads there at the same time, it would have been a dead giveaway. Therefore, a little more creative artistry was in order.
The shadow knockout under the chin/across the neck wasn't done very well, but the white chested extended shirt was.

[Zeon Mason]

Now if Someone can insert a body that represents Oswald’s 5’-9” 135 lb body into the gap between Prayer Woman and Lovelady and about a step or 2 up from the ground level and try to simulate the movement that is described by Mr Ford “as flapping”, that would be most helpful.

Perhaps also see how an Oswald model of a figure unfurling a flag would look in this space.

Also try placing the Oswald figure over against the West wall where the red shirt man in Hughes film is , raising the object to his mouth level, then show the body move  eastward and down a step or 2  into this same gap ( where the shadow of Lovelady is) then have the body move back up and over to the west wall just above the Carl /Roy /Jones /Lewis black man.

I’d like see if it looks like the black solid image of the body of a man radically shaking back and forth as Mr.Ford posted earlier misrepresenting my proposed move to if Oswald or whether such model movement will demonstrate if my proposed movement of Oswald could be the reason for the extra blob of red and white instead of a flag being unfurled .

[Alan Ford]

Here is the requested 2 frame GIF depicting my W2 pose with a Weisberg full frame image. The doorway frame required reprocessing with a camera tilt to match the reference frame. Note that while reviewing my notes I realized I transposed the values for “TorsoRot” for the W1 and W2 positions. I’ve corrected that mistake in this and future forthcoming work. I’m redoing the animations, but  I don’t expect substantive changes. Not sure what to do with the Bobblehead GIF?

Many thanks, Mr. Hackerott, your going to this trouble is genuinely appreciated.

Is it not evident from this overlay that 3D Lovelady's posture is simply wrong?

Compare this far less tortured orientation:



To get a perfect alignment, imagine the 1967 photographer moving a little east, and Mr. Lovelady's head following him (without any other movement of his body).