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Author Topic: A scientific look at the Single Bullet Theory.  (Read 9007 times)

Offline Anastasia de Lisy

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Re: A scientific look at the Single Bullet Theory.
« Reply #180 on: September 11, 2018, 03:50:27 AM »
I agree with the first part - that the SBT is false, but Arlen Specter and others acted in good faith in putting the theory forward.  They were convinced partly by what they saw in the zfilm and by the FBI (Robert Frazier) that Gov. Connally was reacting to being hit by the bullet that struck him in the back/armpit by z240 but probably more convinced because they could find no other explanation for where the bullet that passed through JFK's neck went after it exited JFK's throat.  There was no evidence that it struck inside the car, so they concluded it had to have hit Gov. Connally.  That was a reasonable conclusion.  The first shot SBT is a plausible theory and that does appear to be the version favoured by the WC.  Since the WC, however, the SBT has evolved into "certainty" that it was the first shot that missed and the second shot that struck both JFK and Gov. Connally.  That theory is at odds with large bodies of consistent evidence (the evidence of 20+ witnesses that the first shot struck JFK as he reacted immediately to it as if he was hit by it (no smiling and waving for several seconds afterward); that the second shot was after the midpoint between 1 and 3 and, therefore, only one shot before z250; that the first shot was after z186 and before z202; that the second shot was just before Greer turned around for the first time (he turns around from z276-280). As a result, the only shot that could have passed through JFK and struck Gov. Connally is the first shot.
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Yes, I fully agree with you. So I misspoke and I apologize. You are absolutely right.

Apart from the virtual impossibility that JFK's neck could have stopped that bullet, there is absolutely no evidence that the bullet CE399 came from the stretcher or table on which JFK was placed.  There is evidence that it came from the stretcher used by Gov. Connally.  The evidence puts Connally's stretcher in the same second floor location of the stretcher on which CE399 was found (it fell to the floor after the stretcher was moved). JFK's stretcher was never taken to the second floor). If you conclude that it had to be on one of those two stretchers (which, in my view, absent evidence that it was planted, is the only reasonable conclusion), then it came from Gov. Connally.
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On the other hand, you're a little off topic here. Nevertheless, I can add the fact that in reality, exhibit CE-399 is actually the last projectile fired at Dealey Plaza. It was fired from the 6th floor of the Texas School Book Depository by Lee Harvey Oswald. His bullet hit the concrete next to the sewer plate, then ricocheted and fell back into the grass of Dealey Plaza. (Z-401 & Z-402). The bullet will then be recovered by the investigators. So it has absolutely nothing to do with Kennedy and Connally's injuries.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2018, 03:54:13 AM by Anastasia de Lisy »

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Re: A scientific look at the Single Bullet Theory.
« Reply #180 on: September 11, 2018, 03:50:27 AM »


Online Andrew Mason

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Re: A scientific look at the Single Bullet Theory.
« Reply #181 on: September 11, 2018, 04:29:00 PM »
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On the other hand, you're a little off topic here.
Most of this thread is "off topic". But the issue of where CE399 came from is actually related to the SBT.  The SBT says that CE399 was the single bullet that caused all of JFK's and Gov. Connally's non-fatal injuries (ie. all the damage except the head shot).  If it came from JFK's back, that would eliminate the possiblity that it also struck Gov. Connally.
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Nevertheless, I can add the fact that in reality, exhibit CE-399 is actually the last projectile fired at Dealey Plaza. It was fired from the 6th floor of the Texas School Book Depository by Lee Harvey Oswald. His bullet hit the concrete next to the sewer plate, then ricocheted and fell back into the grass of Dealey Plaza. (Z-401 & Z-402). The bullet will then be recovered by the investigators. So it has absolutely nothing to do with Kennedy and Connally's injuries.
If a pristine 6.5 mm rifle bullet travelling at anything close to 2000 feet/sec. struck concrete and deflected and then slowed down enough to land on the grass in Dealey Plaza, it must have deposited most of its energy in the concrete that it struck and in deforming itself.  Both the concrete and the bullet would show this. The pressure on the nose of the bullet striking the concrete would be far greater than the copper jacket and lead core could withstand and the bullet nose would yield to that pressure and show obvious signs of the impact. There are no such signs on the bullet.  There is no evidence of a strike on the concrete either.  There is rather strong evidence that the head shot was the last of three shots.  There is evidence that a fragment from the second shot struck James Tague.  He was standing about 300 feet from the limo at the time of the third shot and directly in line with the 6th floor sniper's nest and the limo.  So the evidence is against CE399 being the second or third shot. CE399 is consistent with a shot passing through JFK and then striking something that did not immediately slow or stop it but allowed it to come to a more gradual stop (such as a glancing strike, butt-first striking something hard enough to dent the base and penetrating enough flesh/muscle sufficient to stop it over some distance).
« Last Edit: September 11, 2018, 07:48:44 PM by Andrew Mason »

Online Nicholas Turner

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Re: A scientific look at the Single Bullet Theory.
« Reply #182 on: September 11, 2018, 10:04:32 PM »
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You have zero argument. So I take your answer and put it directly in the garbage :)

Feel free.

Offline Susan Wilde

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Re: A scientific look at the Single Bullet Theory.
« Reply #183 on: October 27, 2018, 09:49:57 AM »
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Oh, sorry. I thought you wanted to use a science approach.

I can't tell when JFK started to react because I can't see that he is not already reacting before he emerges from behind the sign. I would need evidence that he is not already reacting. But the zfilm shows significant change in both hand positions betwen z200 and z222. There are many witnesses who observed that JFK changed his hand positions in response to the first shot. And there is quite a bit of evidence that the first shot was after z186.

I would also need evidence to show that JFK's dramatic reaction seen from z226 and following wa necessarily the immediate initial reaction. It could be a gagging reaction due the difficulty in breathing resulting from the damage to his airway. We do know that humans normally take about 12 to 20 breaths per minute so a gagging reaction could start a couple of seconds after sustaining the injury.

Yes, correct Mr. Mason.

For persons who have the best, clearest Zapruder frames for study (I do), it is easy to see that JFK, very suddenly, superfast snaps his head  90 to 100 degrees  within only  3  Zapruder frames
 (equaling a superfast 0.16 second), from his looking  90 degrees to his direct right @ Z-203,  to his looking directly forward/a bit left of center by Z-206.

That same JFK  superfast head snap reaction (equaling a head snap superfast speed of 549 to 610 degrees per second)  that started @ Z-203/204 is,  without question,  JFK's first superfast response to his being first impacted with a bullet, at the latest,  @ Z-198/199.

Additionally, the WC documented for us that @ Z-198/199,  JFK was  still hidden by the large oak tree,  still  hidden out of the targeting view,  to  anyone  in the WC's, supposed, lone nut snipers lair!

That shot that first impacted JFK by Z-198/199  was triggered by another assassin who fired from a location where the large oak tree did  not block JFK..
« Last Edit: October 27, 2018, 09:53:51 AM by Susan Wilde »

Online Andrew Mason

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Re: A scientific look at the Single Bullet Theory.
« Reply #184 on: October 31, 2018, 02:40:04 AM »
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Additionally, the WC documented for us that @ Z-198/199,  JFK was  still hidden by the large oak tree,  still  hidden out of the targeting view,  to  anyone  in the WC's, supposed, lone nut snipers lair!

That shot that first impacted JFK by Z-198/199  was triggered by another assassin who fired from a location where the large oak tree did  not block JFK..
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The WC was wrong on that point. JFK was clear of the oak tree when he was mid-way between the lamppost and the Thornton freeway sign on the north side of Elm St. :



The zfilm shows he was at You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

The WC should have paid attention to the Secret Service film made in early December 1963 which shows the tree as it appeared to Oswald in the SN. The spring foliage and additional branch growth shown in the  FBI re-enactment made in May 1964 was not there in November/63. The Secret Service film also shows that JFK was visible and easily tracked while passing under the tree (watch as the car passes in front of the TSBD and down Elm at 10:20-30:



« Last Edit: October 31, 2018, 06:49:34 PM by Andrew Mason »

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Re: A scientific look at the Single Bullet Theory.
« Reply #184 on: October 31, 2018, 02:40:04 AM »


Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: A scientific look at the Single Bullet Theory.
« Reply #185 on: November 01, 2018, 12:18:59 AM »
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The WC was wrong on that point. JFK was clear of the oak tree when he was mid-way between the lamppost and the Thornton freeway sign on the north side of Elm St. :

The zfilm shows he was at You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

The WC should have paid attention to the Secret Service film made in early December 1963 which shows the tree as it appeared to Oswald in the SN. The spring foliage and additional branch growth shown in the  FBI re-enactment made in May 1964 was not there in November/63. The Secret Service film also shows that JFK was visible and easily tracked while passing under the tree (watch as the car passes in front of the TSBD and down Elm at 10:20-30:




You ought to get your eyes checked. The Z190s occur between the two orange lines above.

 



 

Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: A scientific look at the Single Bullet Theory.
« Reply #186 on: November 01, 2018, 12:29:24 AM »
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Yes, correct Mr. Mason.

For persons who have the best, clearest Zapruder frames for study (I do), it is easy to see that JFK, very suddenly, superfast snaps his head  90 to 100 degrees  within only  3  Zapruder frames
 (equaling a superfast 0.16 second), from his looking  90 degrees to his direct right @ Z-203,  to his looking directly forward/a bit left of center by Z-206.

That same JFK  superfast head snap reaction (equaling a head snap superfast speed of 549 to 610 degrees per second)  that started @ Z-203/204 is,  without question,  JFK's first superfast response to his being first impacted with a bullet, at the latest,  @ Z-198/199.

Sorry. No head turn to full-forward, left alone one to the President's left.



Compare JFK's hairline in Z206 to Z225. No change.

 

Online Andrew Mason

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Re: A scientific look at the Single Bullet Theory.
« Reply #187 on: November 01, 2018, 03:16:49 AM »
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You ought to get your eyes checked. The Z190s occur between the two orange lines above.
There are other ways to relate the Secret Service film to the zfilm.  You can time the car as it moves down Elm. You can relate the position to the painted road lane lines to the car position in both films. Or you can develop your own 3D model. In all cases the president is between the lamppost and the Thornton sign at z190 to z200. Using lane lines, in the SS film still that shows JFK visible to the SN, the position of JFK is opposite the end of the of the left lane line dash (third dash from the corner). That lane dash end point is just past a point that is directly opposite the lamppost (ie. on a line from the lamppost perpendicular to the curb).  So JFK is between the lamppost and the Thornton sign.  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login shows that JFK was at that point at z195.

Your lines are not perpendicular to the street curb.  The car is following the street direction so the parts of the car that are perpendicular to the car's direction (eg. the front, back, windshield) are perpendicular to the curbs:


Since the road-perpendicular line from the back of JFK's position in the photo crosses the lamp post at a point that is higher above the ground than the line is above the car, this means that the back of JFK is AHEAD of the lamp post.  Since it crosses below the foot of the Thornton Freeway sign, it is before that sign.  The road-perpendicular line from the front of the car crosses the Thornton sign at about the foot of the sign post, so the front of the car is just behind the Thornton Freeway sign (i.e. the line which passes just above the top of the hood crosses the sign at a point that is lower in relation to the sign).  The distance from the front of that car to JFK's position is likely about 10 feet. JFK, therefore, is ahead of the lamp post and at least 10 feet from the sign.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2018, 05:04:34 PM by Andrew Mason »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: A scientific look at the Single Bullet Theory.
« Reply #187 on: November 01, 2018, 03:16:49 AM »