If Oswald Was The Assassin, Did He Plan His Escape From The TSBD Very Well?

[John Iacoletti]

If you count windows, you'll see that the triangular area west of the building is on the same level as the first floor.

[Martin Weidmann]

If you count windows, you'll see that the triangular area west of the building is on the same level as the first floor.

You are correct. I thought I was looking at the loading dock (which would have been at the same level as the dock behind the building on the north side) but at second look it may well be the roof of the extension of the first floor.

[Martin Weidmann]

Adams and Ernest talking about her WC testimony:

  I asked if she remembered seeing the Shelley/Lovelady
incident in the copy of testimony she was given to correct.
"I don't recall seeing that section at all," she answered. "If it
had been in there, and since I didn't see them, i would have
edited it out.

The Girl On The Stairs (pg 349)

She doesn't pass Shelley and Lovelady outside. If she did she would be walking back to the TSBD, not running out the door.

She doesn't pass Shelley and Lovelady outside. If she did she would be walking back to the TSBD, not running out the door.

I am not sure what you are saying here. If you look at the photo you posted, you see a dead end road running parallel to the front of the TSBD. That's the road Shelley and Lovelady used to walk towards the parking lot. I estimate they got there about 3 minutes after the shots and they waited there for a while.

Adams and Styles came from behind the building and, probably somewhere near the boxcar, they were told by a police man to return to the building.
They then walked along the track towards the same parking lot entrance. According to the timeline they would have been there about 4 minutes after the shots.

This is the only place where they came in the vicinity of eachother during the period 12.30 to 12.36. I am not saying with any kind of certainty it happened, but this may well be the best location to explain the encounter that Adams misremembered as having taken place inside the building.

[John Iacoletti]

You are correct. I though I was looking at the loading dock (which would have been at the same level as the dock behind the building on the north side) but at second look it may well be the roof of the extension of the first floor.

 

That's what it looks like to me.

[Dan O'meara]

She doesn't pass Shelley and Lovelady outside. If she did she would be walking back to the TSBD, not running out the door.

I am not sure what you are saying here. If you look at the photo you posted, you see a dead end road running parallel to the front of the TSBD. That's the road Shelley and Lovelady used to walk towards the parking lot. I estimate they got there about 3 minutes after the shots and they waited there for a while.

Adams and Styles came from behind the building and, probably somewhere near the boxcar, they were told by a police man to return to the building.
They then walked along the track towards the same parking lot entrance. According to the timeline they would have been there about 4 minutes after the shots.

This is the only place where they came in the vicinity of eachother during the period 12.30 to 12.36. I am not saying with any kind of certainty it happened, but this may well be the best location to explain the encounter that Adams misremembered as having taken place inside the building.

Adams and Styles reached the west corner of the TSBD before Shelley and Lovelady got there. As you point out, their paths would surely have crossed if Shelley/Lovelady got there first but none of them - Shelley, Lovelady, Adams or Styles - record such an encounter. The encounter between Adams and Shelley/Lovelady is a complete fabrication, it doesn't need to be considered, it doesn't need to be explained as a displaced memory by Adams. Both Adams and Styles categorically deny the Shelley/Lovelady encounter on the first floor. Shelley doesn't even acknowledge it. But if they had bumped into each other at the west corner someone would have mentioned it.
I think the best explanation is that Shelley/Lovelady spent 3 to 4 minutes outside the TSBD (as they claim in their testimonies) and then began to make their way down the dead-end street towards the railroad yard. Adams/Styles round the corner about 12:34, Shelley/Lovelady arrive shortly after.

[Martin Weidmann]

Adams and Styles reached the west corner of the TSBD before Shelley and Lovelady got there. As you point out, their paths would surely have crossed if Shelley/Lovelady got there first but none of them - Shelley, Lovelady, Adams or Styles - record such an encounter. The encounter between Adams and Shelley/Lovelady is a complete fabrication, it doesn't need to be considered, it doesn't need to be explained as a displaced memory by Adams. Both Adams and Styles categorically deny the Shelley/Lovelady encounter on the first floor. Shelley doesn't even acknowledge it. But if they had bumped into each other at the west corner someone would have mentioned it.
I think the best explanation is that Shelley/Lovelady spent 3 to 4 minutes outside the TSBD (as they claim in their testimonies) and then began to make their way down the dead-end street towards the railroad yard. Adams/Styles round the corner about 12:34, Shelley/Lovelady arrive shortly after.

Adams and Styles reached the west corner of the TSBD before Shelley and Lovelady got there. As you point out, their paths would surely have crossed if Shelley/Lovelady got there first but none of them - Shelley, Lovelady, Adams or Styles - record such an encounter. The encounter between Adams and Shelley/Lovelady is a complete fabrication, it doesn't need to be considered, it doesn't need to be explained as a displaced memory by Adams.

Well, one thing is for sure. The encounter doesn't fit in any kind of scenario. It could indeed be a fabrication but in order to reach that conclusion with any kind of legal certainty, it is in fact necessary to rule out all the other options.

Both Adams and Styles categorically deny the Shelley/Lovelady encounter on the first floor. Shelley doesn't even acknowledge it. But if they had bumped into each other at the west corner someone would have mentioned it.

That's not completely true. Yes, it is true that Adams claimed the encounter never took place to Barry Ernest, but that happened 35 years after the fact. In her WC testimony she said it did happen. As for Styles, she never said anything more than that she did not remember. And Shelley said in his testimony he only saw Eddie Piper.

What I find interesting is what possible probative value there was for the WC to actually ask Shelley if he, out of all the TSBD employees, had seen Victoria Adams. If they had asked him if he had seen Oswald, that would have been a valid question, the answer to which could contribute to a finding of fact pertinent to the case. But an encounter between Shelley and Adams would be of no significance to the actual case..... unless of course, they were looking for a way to discredit her as a witness.

But if they had bumped into each other at the west corner someone would have mentioned it.

Yes, I agree

I think the best explanation is that Shelley/Lovelady spent 3 to 4 minutes outside the TSBD (as they claim in their testimonies) and then began to make their way down the dead-end street towards the railroad yard. Adams/Styles round the corner about 12:34, Shelley/Lovelady arrive shortly after.

If that were the case, they would have passed eachother on the dead end street, somewhere in front of the TSBD.

[Dan O'meara]

"If that were the case, they would have passed each other on the dead end street, somewhere in front of the TSBD."
 Not necessarily, in his WC testimony Shelley makes it clear he is stood on the "little, old island" then begins to walk towards the railroad track in the middle of the street:

Mr. BALL - You went to the concrete between the two Elm Streets?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes, where they split.
Mr. BALL - You went out there and then what did you do?
Mr. SHELLEY - Well, officers started running down to the railroad yards and Billy and I walked down that way.
Mr. BALL - How did you get down that way; what course did you take?
Mr. SHELLEY - We walked down the middle of the little street.
Mr. BALL - The dead-end street?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes.

Adams and Styles would have been on the pavement/sidewalk, Shelley and Lovelady in the middle of the street and the Couch film makes it clear there would have been a row of cars between them.

[Martin Weidmann]

"If that were the case, they would have passed each other on the dead end street, somewhere in front of the TSBD."
 Not necessarily, in his WC testimony Shelley makes it clear he is stood on the "little, old island" then begins to walk towards the railroad track in the middle of the street:

Mr. BALL - You went to the concrete between the two Elm Streets?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes, where they split.
Mr. BALL - You went out there and then what did you do?
Mr. SHELLEY - Well, officers started running down to the railroad yards and Billy and I walked down that way.
Mr. BALL - How did you get down that way; what course did you take?
Mr. SHELLEY - We walked down the middle of the little street.
Mr. BALL - The dead-end street?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes.

Adams and Styles would have been on the pavement/sidewalk, Shelley and Lovelady in the middle of the street and the Couch film makes it clear there would have been a row of cars between them.

Are you really saying that the cars parked inbetween the sidewalk and the middle of the road obscured vision in such a way that you could not see who was walking on the other side of the car?