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Author Topic: If Oswald Was The Assassin, Did He Plan His Escape From The TSBD Very Well?  (Read 81386 times)

Online Charles Collins

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I did. Every statement I made about his story is factual. He did not ID Oswald in the police lineup. At first he wasn't sure which window he saw. He said the shooter lingered in the window. He claimed he didn't ID Oswald at the police station because he feared for his life, yet he spoke with reports about the shooting and identified himself while speaking with them, on 11/22--odd behavior if he feared Oswald's accomplices might kill him.

We should remember that Brennan only agreed to ID Oswald as the shooter after prolonged "interviews" by federal agents. Most of his testimony is credible and agrees with that of several other witnesses. The only doubtful element in his testimony, other than his belated Oswald ID, is his statement that the gunman was standing.

Where did you get information that supposedly indicates that Howard Brennan spoke with reporters and identified himself on 11/22/63?

Anybody else know the answer to my question?

The silence is deafening...

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Offline Bill Chapman

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Tries to sidestep his ignorance in true Chapman fashion.

 :'(

Ce399 was damaged enough to have CTers/JAQers(aka OAKers) avoid posting it.
Now tell us what FMJ ammo was designed to do.

Offline John Iacoletti

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Ce399 was damaged enough to have CTers/JAQers(aka OAKers) avoid posting it.

Nobody has “avoided” anything. That’s a Chapman delusion.

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Offline Michael T. Griffith

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Anybody else know the answer to my question? The silence is deafening...

"The silence is deafening"? So if you don't get a reply within a certain timeframe, you assume your question is being dodged?

Anyway, Brennan's 11/22/63 interview with reporters is discussed in Mark Lane's book Rush to Judgment (p. 92). Does anyone take seriously Brennan's belated claim that he failed to positively ID Oswald in the police lineup because he feared for his life? Does anyone here believe that?

Given the disgraceful manner in which the police rigged the lineups, it is quite significant that Brennan declined to make a positive ID. It was only after he was browbeaten for weeks by the FBI that Brennan finally agreed to ID Oswald as the man he had seen in the window. Brennan's foreman, Sandy Speaker, said Brennan was "a nervous wreck" after his FBI "interviews," and that "they made him say what they wanted him to say."

By the way, Brennan was 120 feet away from the TSBD, and the man he saw was behind a window. I seriously doubt that anyone could have seen the man well enough, clearly enough, from that distance and under those conditions, to later make a reliable identification.

"But Brennan was farsighted," some WC apologists will note. So what? Being farsighted does not mean that you have unusually good vision from a distance; it just means that you can see normally from a distance but cannot see normally from short range without glasses or contacts. I'm farsighted and I could not see someone clearly enough from 120 feet away through a window to make a reliable identification.

To get some idea of the unlikelihood of Brennan's belated ID of Oswald, go to a football field, stand on the goal line, close your eyes, and have a random stranger whom you've never seen before stand on the 40 yard line. 40 yards equals 120 feet, or nearly half a football field. And have the stranger stand behind a plate of glass. Look at him for no more than a few minutes, and then come back and tell me that you believe you could recognize him, with a reasonable degree of certainty, hours later among several other people.

And a correction to one of my earlier statements: I said that Bonnie Ray Williams said he heard no movement above him after the shots were fired. James Jarman said this, not Williams, although Williams apparently agreed since he did not mention hearing movement above him after the shots either.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2020, 01:30:52 PM by Michael T. Griffith »

Online Charles Collins

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"The silence is deafening"? So if you don't get a reply within a certain timeframe, you assume your question is being dodged?

Anyway, Brennan's 11/22/63 interview with reporters is discussed in Mark Lane's book Rush to Judgment (p. 92). Does anyone take seriously Brennan's belated claim that he failed to positively ID Oswald in the police lineup because he feared for his life? Does anyone here believe that?

Given the disgraceful manner in which the police rigged the lineups, it is quite significant that Brennan declined to make a positive ID. It was only after he was browbeaten for weeks by the FBI that Brennan finally agreed to ID Oswald as the man he had seen in the window. Brennan's foreman, Sandy Speaker, said Brennan was "a nervous wreck" after his FBI "interviews," and that "they made him say what they wanted him to say."

By the way, Brennan was 120 feet away from the TSBD, and the man he saw was behind a window. I seriously doubt that anyone could have seen the man well enough, clearly enough, from that distance and under those conditions, to later make a reliable identification.

"But Brennan was farsighted," some WC apologists will note. So what? Being farsighted does not mean that you have unusually good vision from a distance; it just means that you can see normally from a distance but cannot see normally from short range without glasses or contacts. I'm farsighted and I could not see someone clearly enough from 120 feet away through a window to make a reliable identification.

To get some idea of the unlikelihood of Brennan's belated ID of Oswald, go to a football field, stand on the goal line, close your eyes, and have a random stranger whom you've never seen before stand on the 40 yard line. 40 yards equals 120 feet, or nearly half a football field. And have the stranger stand behind a plate of glass. Look at him for no more than a few minutes, and then come back and tell me that you believe you could recognize him, with a reasonable degree of certainty, hours later among several other people.

And a correction to one of my earlier statements: I said that Bonnie Ray Williams said he heard no movement above him after the shots were fired. James Jarman said this, not Williams, although Williams apparently agreed since he did not mention hearing movement above him after the shots either.

Thank you for the reply.


Anyway, Brennan's 11/22/63 interview with reporters is discussed in Mark Lane's book Rush to Judgment (p. 92).


Here is what I found in "Rush to Judgment:"

"Furthermore, Brennan's anxiety about himself and his family did not prevent him from speaking to reporters on November 22, when he gave not only his impressions as an eyewitness but also his name. (688)

Footnote 688 : The Dallas Morning News, November 23, 1963.


I haven't been able to find access online to that newspaper (DMN 11/23/63) without subscribing for at least 3-months to the newspaper. But I do have a copy of the 50th anniversary reprint on the way. If anyone here has access to that newspaper and wants to search for whatever Mark Lane might be referencing, please do and post here what you find.

In the meantime, here is what Dallas Morning News reporter Hugh Aynesworth (who was there) wrote in his 2013 book "Witness to History" about this:

"Outside of the building, the police did their utmost not only to protect the general crime scene but also to insulate potentially valuable witnesses from the press. Of the eight or so people I first tried to interview around the book depository, the most important was Howard Brennan, a steamfitter - he had his hard hat with him - who was stationed directly across the street opposite Lee Harvey Oswald perched in the sixth-floor window. Brennan watched in amazement as the shooter aimed and fired, then calmly aimed and fired again.

The first police APB (all points bulletin) came at a quarter to one and was based on Brennan's dexcription of the shooter.

Attention all squads.
Attention all squads.
The suspect in the shooting at Elm and Houston is reported to be an unknown white male, approximately thirty, slender build, height five feet ten inches, weight 165 pounds, reported to be armed with what is thought bo be a .30-caliber rifle.

I saw Brennan talking to two officers and tried to poke my nose into their conversation. 'I saw him up there in that window,' I heard him say as he pointed toward Oswald's sniper nest. 'No doubt he was the one. He wasn't even in much of a hurry.'

One cop asked if Brennan could describe the shooter. 'O course,' he answered. 'I saw him real good.'

Then Brennan noticed me and moved away, asking the officers as he did so to keep me and the other reporters away from him - a request they were glad to fulfill. Brennan, I later learned, feared talking to the press lest he endanger himself or his family. Who knew what accomplices the assassin might have? In fact, for that reason he hesitated to identify Oswald positively in the later police line-up.


And here is what is written in Brennan's book:

From Page 17 of "Witness to History" by Howard Brennan:

"...Before I could reflect any longer I was confronted by a television reporter and cameraman. They wanted to interview me and find out what I knew about the shooting. I did not want to talk to him and I certainly did not want my picture broadcast. If there were more people involved than the young man I had seen then showing me on television as an eyewitness would be like hanging a target over my heart for someone to shoot at.

He kept asking 'Who are you, what do you know about the shooting of the President?' I turned my back on him without answering. He continued to try to get me to talk even though I moved away frim him. Finally I said 'I don't know anything.'

I learned later that my wife, Louise, had been watching television and saw the reporter trying to interview me. Even though my name wasn't given, she knew that I must have seen the assassination. My little grandson, who was less than two, pointed at the TV and said 'There's Granddaddy!' My daughter Vicki had watched the whole scene in a beauty shop. I felt exposed to the whole world as I tried to evade that reporter and cameraman. I don't know how long the reporter stayed with me, but it had to be for several minutes: each time he'd approach me I'd turn or move away a few steps. It is my sincere belief that Lee Harvey Oswald came out of the front door of the Depository while I was trying to avoid the TV reporter. If my attention had not been distracted I might have spotted him right there."

Later at the Sheriff's office:

"With more time to think, I recounted every detail about the young man that might help them apprehend him. His facial features, distinguishing marks, anything that would help. I was asked, 'If you saw this man again, could you identify him?' I said, 'I believe I can!' I knew that I could never forget the face I had seen in the window on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository.

Sorrels said, 'We appreciate your cooperation, Mr. Brennan. Your testimony may be very important.' I began to realize how important it was. Just then, as I was finishing with my testimony to be signed, another man came in whom I assumed to be an F.B.I Agent who informed us that President John F. Kennedy had died from a massive bullet wound to the head. The F.B.I. and Secret Service men in the office didn't respond visibly to the news, but I think, like me, they had somehow hoped against hope that it wasn't true.

.
.
.

Then came a report that one of the employees at the Texas Book Depository was missing. At that moment, I just wanted to get away from it all. Mr. Sorrels introduced me to two men who were with the F.B.I. 'We'll be going with you,' one of them said. 'For awhile we feel that we should put you in protective custody as a precautionary measure.' I wasn't sure exactly what that meant, but I had a pretty good idea. They felt that since the killer hadn't been caught and may have seen the telecast, that my life might be in danger. If there was a conspiracy, there might be others who would want to silence me. 'We'll be with you at all times for awhile, but we'' do everything in our power to stay in the background.'

.
.
.

Later his wife Louise asked:

"...'How long are they going to watch us?' she asked. I shook my head. 'I don't know. I guess as long as they think I may be in any kind of danger.' Louise shuddered visibly when I said that and I could see the very thought was upsetting her. I reassured her, 'Now don't worry, I'm not really in any danger. They're just doing it as a precaution.'

This didn't seem convincing to her. 'Howard,' she said, 'I'm afraid. We don't know who might be out there looking for you!' I couldn't reply to that. Louise wanted to know everything that had happened in the minutest detail. I repeated the events of the day to her, recounting details that were larger than life. Then she told me something I hadn't heard before. 'I heard on the television that the police have arrested someone they suspect as the killer' This news hit me like a thunderbolt. If this were so, it was a relief. But at the same time, I felt in even more danger, because if the police had found the young man who was in the sixth floor window, there might well be others who would do whatever they could to keep me from identifying him. We turned the television on again. We were becoming more and more embroiled in the drama that was developing and could only wonder what would happen next."
« Last Edit: June 26, 2020, 02:45:26 PM by Charles Collins »

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Offline Jack Nessan

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Thank you for the reply.


Anyway, Brennan's 11/22/63 interview with reporters is discussed in Mark Lane's book Rush to Judgment (p. 92).


Here is what I found in "Rush to Judgment:"

"Furthermore, Brennan's anxiety about himself and his family did not prevent him from speaking to reporters on November 22, when he gave not only his impressions as an eyewitness but also his name. (688)

Footnote 688 : The Dallas Morning News, November 23, 1963.


I haven't been able to find access online to that newspaper (DMN 11/23/63) without subscribing for at least 3-months to the newspaper. But I do have a copy of the 50th anniversary reprint on the way. If anyone here has access to that newspaper and wants to search for whatever Mark Lane might be referencing, please do and post here what you find.

In the meantime, here is what Dallas Morning News reporter Hugh Aynesworth (who was there) wrote in his 2013 book "Witness to History" about this:

"Outside of the building, the police did their utmost not only to protect the general crime scene but also to insulate potentially valuable witnesses from the press. Of the eight or so people I first tried to interview around the book depository, the most important was Howard Brennan, a steamfitter - he had his hard hat with him - who was stationed directly across the street opposite Lee Harvey Oswald perched in the sixth-floor window. Brennan watched in amazement as the shooter aimed and fired, then calmly aimed and fired again.

The first police APB (all points bulletin) came at a quarter to one and was based on Brennan's dexcription of the shooter.

Attention all squads.
Attention all squads.
The suspect in the shooting at Elm and Houston is reported to be an unknown white male, approximately thirty, slender build, height five feet ten inches, weight 165 pounds, reported to be armed with what is thought bo be a .30-caliber rifle.

I saw Brennan talking to two officers and tried to poke my nose into their conversation. 'I saw him up there in that window,' I heard him say as he pointed toward Oswald's sniper nest. 'No doubt he was the one. He wasn't even in much of a hurry.'

One cop asked if Brennan could describe the shooter. 'O course,' he answered. 'I saw him real good.'

Then Brennan noticed me and moved away, asking the officers as he did so to keep me and the other reporters away from him - a request they were glad to fulfill. Brennan, I later learned, feared talking to the press lest he endanger himself or his family. Who knew what accomplices the assassin might have? In fact, for that reason he hesitated to identify Oswald positively in the later police line-up.


And here is what is written in Brennan's book:

From Page 17 of "Witness to History" by Howard Brennan:

"...Before I could reflect any longer I was confronted by a television reporter and cameraman. They wanted to interview me and find out what I knew about the shooting. I did not want to talk to him and I certainly did not want my picture broadcast. If there were more people involved than the young man I had seen then showing me on television as an eyewitness would be like hanging a target over my heart for someone to shoot at.

He kept asking 'Who are you, what do you know about the shooting of the President?' I turned my back on him without answering. He continued to try to get me to talk even though I moved away frim him. Finally I said 'I don't know anything.'

I learned later that my wife, Louise, had been watching television and saw the reporter trying to interview me. Even though my name wasn't given, she knew that I must have seen the assassination. My little grandson, who was less than two, pointed at the TV and said 'There's Granddaddy!' My daughter Vicki had watched the whole scene in a beauty shop. I felt exposed to the whole world as I tried to evade that reporter and cameraman. I don't know how long the reporter stayed with me, but it had to be for several minutes: each time he'd approach me I'd turn or move away a few steps. It is my sincere belief that Lee Harvey Oswald came out of the front door of the Depository while I was trying to avoid the TV reporter. If my attention had not been distracted I might have spotted him right there."

Later at the Sheriff's office:

"With more time to think, I recounted every detail about the young man that might help them apprehend him. His facial features, distinguishing marks, anything that would help. I was asked, 'If you saw this man again, could you identify him?' I said, 'I believe I can!' I knew that I could never forget the face I had seen in the window on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository.

Sorrels said, 'We appreciate your cooperation, Mr. Brennan. Your testimony may be very important.' I began to realize how important it was. Just then, as I was finishing with my testimony to be signed, another man came in whom I assumed to be an F.B.I Agent who informed us that President John F. Kennedy had died from a massive bullet wound to the head. The F.B.I. and Secret Service men in the office didn't respond visibly to the news, but I think, like me, they had somehow hoped against hope that it wasn't true.

.
.
.

Then came a report that one of the employees at the Texas Book Depository was missing. At that moment, I just wanted to get away from it all. Mr. Sorrels introduced me to two men who were with the F.B.I. 'We'll be going with you,' one of them said. 'For awhile we feel that we should put you in protective custody as a precautionary measure.' I wasn't sure exactly what that meant, but I had a pretty good idea. They felt that since the killer hadn't been caught and may have seen the telecast, that my life might be in danger. If there was a conspiracy, there might be others who would want to silence me. 'We'll be with you at all times for awhile, but we'' do everything in our power to stay in the background.'

.
.
.

Later his wife Louise asked:

"...'How long are they going to watch us?' she asked. I shook my head. 'I don't know. I guess as long as they think I may be in any kind of danger.' Louise shuddered visibly when I said that and I could see the very thought was upsetting her. I reassured her, 'Now don't worry, I'm not really in any danger. They're just doing it as a precaution.'

This didn't seem convincing to her. 'Howard,' she said, 'I'm afraid. We don't know who might be out there looking for you!' I couldn't reply to that. Louise wanted to know everything that had happened in the minutest detail. I repeated the events of the day to her, recounting details that were larger than life. Then she told me something I hadn't heard before. 'I heard on the television that the police have arrested someone they suspect as the killer' This news hit me like a thunderbolt. If this were so, it was a relief. But at the same time, I felt in even more danger, because if the police had found the young man who was in the sixth floor window, there might well be others who would do whatever they could to keep me from identifying him. We turned the television on again. We were becoming more and more embroiled in the drama that was developing and could only wonder what would happen next."

Here is the transcribed article.

Dallas Morning News Saturday Nov 23, 1964 ---- The Assassin Crouched And Took Deadly Aim by Kent Biffle
"After the first shot, I looked up and saw him. The gun was sticking out of the window. I saw him fire a second time. He was a slender guy, a nice looking guy. He didn’t seem to be in no hurry.”  said Brennan.




I don't seem to be able to copy and paste the actual newspaper article.



Online Charles Collins

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Here is the transcribed article.

Dallas Morning News Saturday Nov 23, 1964 ---- The Assassin Crouched And Took Deadly Aim by Kent Biffle
"After the first shot, I looked up and saw him. The gun was sticking out of the window. I saw him fire a second time. He was a slender guy, a nice looking guy. He didn’t seem to be in no hurry.”  said Brennan.




I don't seem to be able to copy and paste the actual newspaper article.

Thank you Jack! Is that the entire article? Or just 5- sentences from the article? Do you have a link (web page address) that you can post?

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Offline Bill Chapman

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Nobody has “avoided” anything. That’s a Chapman delusion.

You OAKer-deluded 'researchers' continue to avoid posting the Ce399 profile as seen in my avatar. You OAKer-deluded 'researchers' continue to avoid telling us why FMJ ammo was designed (and even mandated) to remain as intact as possible, and over-penetrate, when striking a human body.