The JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate > JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate
If Oswald Was The Assassin, Did He Plan His Escape From The TSBD Very Well?
Dan O'meara:
--- Quote from: Gerry Down on July 26, 2020, 03:49:21 PM ---This perfectly illustrates the problem with Vicky Adams testimony. According to the above, Normans EARLIEST account, the guys on the 5th floor ran down the back stairwell IMMEDIATELY after the shots had been fired. Which of course they didn't. They actually went to the west windows for a minute or two.
People make generalized statements, like Norman here, which people then take literally.
What likely happened is that Adams made a generalized statement early on, which she then later modified into a literal one due to bad memory.
--- End quote ---
This is just completely incorrect. Nowhere in the statement is the word 'IMMEDIATELY' used or even hinted at. You have introduced it then started to make generalised statements off the back of it. Norman is simply listing what happened in a very basic statement:
Went outside
Came back inside
Up to fifth floor
BRW joins them
Watch parade
Shots
Run downstairs
Sure, he's missed out going to the west window but he also misses out other important points such as the location of the shooter. The notion of them running down the stairs immediately after the shots has been introduced by you.Then you use this made-up assumption to cast doubt on Vicki Adam's testimony (where did Adams come into it?)
Adams and Styles do make it down before Truly and Baker, something discussed in detail earlier in this thread.
Dougherty's story about going down to Piper is a falsehood (apart from being crazy). Also discussed earlier - Dougherty can't make it down from the 5th, have his encounter with Piper and get back up to the 5th before Truly and Baker arrive at the elevators. Therefore, after hearing the shots, Dougherty must be stood next to the elevator for a minute or more, at least, before he decides to go down for his totally encounter with Piper, something Piper has zero recollection of. Dougherty's story about going down to Piper is a lie,
Why can't Dougherty be the white male holding the rifle spotted by Rowland?
Gerry Down:
--- Quote from: Dan O'meara on July 26, 2020, 06:30:02 PM ---Dougherty's story about going down to Piper is a falsehood (apart from being crazy). Also discussed earlier - Dougherty can't make it down from the 5th, have his encounter with Piper and get back up to the 5th before Truly and Baker arrive at the elevators. Therefore, after hearing the shots, Dougherty must be stood next to the elevator for a minute or more, at least, before he decides to go down for his totally encounter with Piper, something Piper has zero recollection of. Dougherty's story about going down to Piper is a lie,
--- End quote ---
It actually fits well. Baker and Truly looked up the elevator shaft and saw both elevators on the 5th floor. This confirms Doughertys account that he was on the 5th floor. When Baker and Truly get up the stairs to the 5th floor, the west elevator is gone. Its gone because Dougherty has gone down to the 1st floor via the west elevator to talk to Piper.
Dan O'meara:
--- Quote from: Gerry Down on July 26, 2020, 07:04:09 PM ---It actually fits well. Baker and Truly looked up the elevator shaft and saw both elevators on the 5th floor. This confirms Doughertys account that he was on the 5th floor. When Baker and Truly get up the stairs to the 5th floor, the west elevator is gone. Its gone because Dougherty has gone down to the 1st floor via the west elevator to talk to Piper.
--- End quote ---
It doesn't fit well at all. You're saying Dougherty hears a shot coming from above him and in his haste to go all the way down to the first floor and ask someone about it he hangs around the elevator for about a minute. Can you explain why he would do that?
Gerry Down:
--- Quote from: Dan O'meara on July 26, 2020, 07:16:13 PM ---It doesn't fit well at all. You're saying Dougherty hears a shot coming from above him and in his haste to go all the way down to the first floor and ask someone about it he hangs around the elevator for about a minute. Can you explain why he would do that?
--- End quote ---
That's what he said he did. Dougherty did not realize there was anyone on the 5th floor (ie Williams, Jarmin and Norman). That's why he didn't go over to them to ask what the sound was. He went down to the first floor to meet someone and ask them. The person he happened to meet was Piper.
Dan O'meara:
--- Quote from: Gerry Down on July 26, 2020, 07:43:22 PM ---That's what he said he did. Dougherty did not realize there was anyone on the 5th floor (ie Williams, Jarmin and Norman). That's why he didn't go over to them to ask what the sound was. He went down to the first floor to meet someone and ask them. The person he happened to meet was Piper.
--- End quote ---
You're missing the point. Dougherty didn't hear the shot then go down to find out what was going on. If we take his testimony at face value it means he heard the shot, then just stood around for about a minute, then went down. Can you explain why he just stood at the elevator for almost a minute?
Also, your point about Dougherty not hearing BRW, Norman and Jarman doesn't hold up. BRW and co. are on the east side of the 5th floor. According to his testimony Dougherty is stood near the elevators on the west side of the 5th floor. After the hearing the shot Dougherty stands around for almost a minute but during this time BRW, Norman and Jarman run to the west side of the building. Towards Dougherty. Three men running on wooden floorboards towards Dougherty and he doesn't hear them? He doesn't hear or see them and they don't hear or see him for a very simple reason. Dougherty is not on the 5th floor. It would appear he is the man holding the rifle on the 6th floor
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