The Smell of Gunpowder and the Smell of Bigfoot

[Robert Reeves]

Circled in the middle -- is JFK's limo 30ft from the approaching underpass.

So at an estimate, in the 3 to 6 seconds after the head shot.

Railway workers stood  nearby said:

S. M. Holland -- ''I made it very clear to the Warren people one of the shots came from behind that picket fence. I heard the report and saw the smoke come out about 6 or 8 feet above the ground, right out from under those trees. There is no doubt whatsoever in my mind . . .''

Richard Dodd -- ''all four of us, all railroad men, standing here, seen about the same thing. The smoke came from behind the hedge -- and a motorcycle policeman dropped his cycle in the street and run up the embankment''

There's a very good old thread about this on the ed forum

google -- "Witnesses who say a shot and smoke came from behind the picket fence"

Interesting Youtube clip re 'do rifles produce smoke when fired' from footage of Charles Whitman 'Texas Tower Sniper'

I asked if the Wiegman still has been debunked because some have said it's just branches from the nearby tree ... which it obviously could be. But it fits with Holland's description ''the smoke come out about 6 or 8 feet above the ground''. The Wiegman film is so brief and all over the place it's hard to conclude much.

If people smelt gun powder, plus we have a photo of what appears like a smokey cloud hovering around the picket fence as described -- nothing changes. Because the eye witnesses who saw smoke weren't taken seriously by the investigators at the time.

[Joe Elliott]

If this frame of the Wiegman was taken at z453, JFK would still be 40 feet from passing under the overpass. This is being generous. Likely this frame is a little later than z453. Z453 is not 3 or 6 seconds but is 7.6 seconds after z313.

Here is what Vincent Bugliosi and Richard Trask have to say, this is a quote from Reclaiming History:

Perhaps just as far out is a photograph, a frame from film shot by NBC’s Dave Wiegman, which Groden has put on page 204 of his book, The Killing of a President. Groden has circled a large, hazy image in the upper right of the photograph and says it “could well be a haze of gunsmoke fire from an assassin’s rifle. But this is ludicrous for several reasons. One, the smoke from a rifle would be a very small and, as indicated, would vanish immediately on this windy day. If what Groden encircled were smoke, it would appear to be smoke from a small smokestack. If that’s an exaggeration, what is not is that the image is probably fifty times larger than what could be expected from the muzzle of a fired rifle. Moreover, the large image is not anywhere along the stockade fence, being to the west of the fence near the Triple Underpass. And finally, Groden has also encircled the presidential limousine on the photo, and it is, as he acknowledges, “disappearing under” the Triple Underpass, meaning that Wiegman’s photo had to have been taken at least a few seconds after the shots were fired. What can Groden’s response to this be? That the smoke originally came from a rifle fired behind the picket fence, that instead of vanishing in the wind actually mushroomed into a large, cloudlike image that kept its form and was drifting west at the time of the frame from Wiegman’s film? We know the image in the Wiegman frame is not smoke from any rifle.

What is it? Richard Task and studied the Wiegman film and he says what Groden says is gunsmoke is nothing more than “the contrast between the light and dark of the background”. Perhaps most importantly, he said the “frames of the Wiegman film that show this white image don’t show any movement of it, which there would be if it was smoke, particularly on a windy day. The image is stationary.”

Some additional points I would like to make. Don Roberdeau’s map agrees with Bugliosi’s assertions. The cloud, if it is a cloud, and if it is hoovering in the air near the “Sniper’s position” and not much further to the west and part wall of the overpass, is 20 feet south of the wooden fence, where the assassination is theorized as shooting behind. In the seven seconds after the headshot, this cloud did not disperse but instead drifted twenty feet to the south, when it should be blown 110 feet to the northeast. A magic cloud if ever I heard of one.

And you can’t have it both ways. You can’t say the gunsmoke held together for seven seconds, long enough for Wiegman to film it and at the same time the cloud disperses enough that witnesses more than 20 feet from the “Sniper’s” fence were able to smell it.

[Jerry Freeman]

It would be much more likely that much smoke [if it is indeed smoke] came from a bar-b-que grill in the parking lot rather than lingering from a rifle. 
Here is some youtube rifle firing for comparison----
 

 

[Thomas Graves]

Has the smokey cloud allegedly in Wiegman frames been debunked?

I'm inclined to believe it was smoke.

After all, the Russians had very primitive rifles back then.

Either that, or Gilberto Policarpo Lopez and Miguel Casas Saez were smoking celebratory cigars before heading back to Habana, via Mexico.

--  MWT 

[Louis Earl]

OP said:  "Eyewitnesses, Earwitnesses, Nose witnesses, are not reliable."

They ARE reliable so long as their 'evidence' jibes with the Warren Report. 

[Thomas Graves]

OP said:  "Eyewitnesses, Earwitnesses, Nose witnesses, are not reliable."

They ARE reliable so long as their 'evidence' jibes with the Warren Report.

Does your pineal gland tell you every night when you go to bed that we live in an evil, evil,  evil CIA and FBI-controlled Deep State?

--  MWT 

[Martin Weidmann]

How many seconds after z312 was the Wiegman frames in question taken? 10 seconds? 30 seconds?

I don’t think they show gun smoke. I think you would have seen similar play of light and shadow on leaves or whatever 10 minutes before or 10 minutes after the assassination.

The timing of the Wiegman film makes me confidence that it is other people who are seeing what they want to see in those frames, not me.

As I said, people see what they want to see..... and they will argue accordingly. And that includes you.